By the way, let's just remember that the station who broadcast this bias is the same one that broadcast the Russel Brand/Jonathan Ross programme that has caused so much trouble. It is basically flawed. The RSPCA is the same organisation that happily takes money raised from pedigree dog shows but then stabs them in the back - that claims to have the interests of all animals at heart but is moving away from helping pedigree dogs due to a knee jerk reaction to a very biased programme.
Mags53 November 14, 2008 at 8:48 p.m.
I have had pedigree dogs now for 34 years and as yet have never had one with an hereditory problem. I have had one with a retained testicle due to trauma (common in humans who aren't interbred) and one with a wheat intolerance (same as me and I'm not interbred). Except for accidents they have NEVER needed veterinay attention for any condition (maybe a few more visits when they're over 10 years old). They have GOOD pedigrees, are shown (if they like it - most do) and I qualify them for Crufts. Sooooooooooooo NOT ALL PEDIGREE DOGS HAVE PROBLEMS. I have three with me now and they are all fine.
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:34 p.m.
K9Love most of the breed standards do not need re writing in any way (the last major review was under the direction of a former President of the British Veterinary Association). The vast majority of people who breed dogs do not show them and pay little or no attention to the standards, so changing them would have no effect. Your description of breed standard dogs I also find as offensive as you have found criticism of working dogs saying that you think they cannot walk properly have you ever been to a major show and seen the thousands of happy health fit animals there?
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:33 p.m.
The accusation you have made if unfounded is as bad as the one you took offense over. I am sorry your dog has an allergy problem but these can be brought on by so many things and have very little if anything to with their genetic background but often by their environment, food or as the result of a previous condition. If they appear to have problems with their back legs I assume you have had it hip scored or his patella’s assed by your vet and as a dog handler I assume you must be aware of all the KC/BVA health checks . The fact that you went to buy a pedigree dog I assumed that YOU had checked out the breeder in advance (and they your suitability to be a dog owner too) you asked and seen proof of hip and eye status of the parents and you had seen the pedigree so you could decide you thought in your view it was acceptable, after all of this you could of done prior to even seeing a
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:33 p.m.
puppy let alone choosing one (such options you would of not had when buying a mongrel), if you did like what you had been shown you SHOULD not of bought the dog, The KC would and do provide all potential owners advice on what they should look for and ask when looking for a new puppy. As for having dog licenses like in the past the good dog owner would buy them and a bad one would not, so not solving any problem. As for vets putting down healthy dog none would do so for purely cosmetic reasons, however if you see my previous posting the RSPCA does not have a good record in that area.
K9LOVE November 14, 2008 at 10:15 a.m.
Hi, I work with Dogs Day in Day out as a dog handler, i have a Pedigree Labrador who i get a vets bill on average once a month for due to Allergies, and he appears tired on his back legs on occassions, his pedigree is very interbreed and i fear i may not hold on to him as long as i would hope. i have a "Mutt" cross breed Spaniel, for search work, he only goes to the vets for a Vac once a year, i love all my dogs, but in the long run i would like a dog to be healthy, i dont care what they look like. The Kennel club needs to review every breed and re-write the breed standards, also stop interbreeding. mom and dad should have diffrent pedigree lines from 4 generations, i also found it, in very bad taste that working dogs where told they where not the correct standard, my working german shepherd can do everything and can walk, where breed standard dogs can hardly walk. I also feel that the kennel club should speak to people breeding working strains of dogs as the dogs are healthy, workable and people friendly. And Vets should be Finned if found to be putting Dogs to sleep, just because of there looks. i'm also a great believer in bringing back dog licences, maybe if someone sensible looked at everything from the dogs point and not us mere humans they would see, dogs came to be mans best friend,and we are killing them slowly, what friends are we to them.
kmarsh November 14, 2008 at 3:50 a.m.
i think that is is just plain wrong what they do to the porr animals they neva did any thing 2 u. so just leave them alone please so i can sleep easier at nite and i dont have 2 worry how those dogs r getting treated. so i say please 4 every 1's pice of mind dont hurt tha little animals. please. cause i have had 2 tell some 1 about some animal abuse
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:34 a.m.
Ok lets get some balance on this subject. The producer of the programme has now publicly admitted that she wanted to shock people and did not think that the Kennel Club or those associated with it should be able to be given a voice as to what major steps and work have already been achieved in the world of canine health via it many schemes and practices and policies. There is now acknowledgement that most of the information given was either misleading, vastly inflated or downright lies. She said it was not her job to ensure that the programme was balanced in any way or should show the WHOLE picture in the world of pedigree dogs but just what SHE wanted to show.
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:32 a.m.
Yes in the past and I mean over 40 years ago it was custom for some breeders to cull puppies be it because they had a large litter and the bitch would have trouble rearing them all (this normally advised by a vet) or it was because the puppies may have a fault (and not a aesthetic one) but if in some breed all white animals would be born deaf many breeders would have such puppies humanely destroyed. However this type of practice has all but been stopped in the last 30 years and to be honest I have not heard of anyone who has done so for many many years, the producers of the programme picked on two selected breeds and then tried to bend the truth to make it look like the Kennel Club condoned such policy which it has and does not! People forget that most show dogs are first and foremost people well cared for and beloved pets sharing their owners lives and homes, they have to be of good temperament (after all how many dogs would take to having complete stranger inspect every part of their body up to 60 or more times a year) and be surrounded by thousands of other dogs.
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:32 a.m.
Most show dogs spend a very small percentage of their lives at shows, and if they did not enjoy the experience they would not and could not be successfully shown by their owners.Breed standard are only a guide/blue print for an ideal and only a very small will be a perfect fit to that (and only in some judges eye) and all standards have a wide variance within them so to think that a dog is discarded because it does not meet a standard 100% is a stupid statement to make!! You must also remember that many of the standards in existence are based on the Country of origin or the FCI and not just by the Kennel Club,
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:31 a.m.
yet the producers did not make any comment as to how other breeds look around the rest of the world. The type of GSD shown in the programme is the one favoured in other parts of Europe and again no reference to this was made. #1Doggy Lover the person you state was the KC Manager is in fact its Chairman and is a very knowledgeable and caring man (his family have had dogs at the highest of lever for many generation) the tone of questioning he faced on the practice of Line Breeding and not In-breeding was both insulting and calculated. Although to humans the practice of mating a bitch to its grandsire would seem quite unacceptable (and rightly so)
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:30 a.m.
in NATURE this in fact a common occurrence and for many pack and herd animals, or to put it in another way if an area has many stray dogs it will be the strongest and normally most aggressive dog that will mate with all the bitches in an area as he is the dominant, he will mate them regardless of what relationship he is to them be it father, grandfather or even brother, and many mongrels and cross breeds would be the result of such matings. Line mating to a common ancestor (four or more generations back) can be used to fix type in a breed , and yes it may bring out a genetic fault but it is as likely to prevent a gene being inherited and eradicate a genetic disorder and the actual
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:30 a.m.
Eddlol you could not be more wrong the Kennel Club do not and never have had such a rule.........what make you think they have?
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:54 a.m.
According to the annual report in 2007 the RSPCA rehomed/released (released means gave back to when dog was lost) 15,787 dogs yet it Humane euthanasia(ie destroyed)7,506 dogs more than HALF the dogs it rehomed!!! In fact in 2007 the RSPCA euthanized 66,489 animals (granted it less than the 72,042 they destroyed in 2006!!).
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:54 a.m.
Their income in for 2007 was £114,100,000, it has £83.2 million in fixed assets, it has £123.5 million in investments so over £206 million pounds in assets and investments alone. Yet it spent £8,189,000 on campaigns and media work £1,349,000 on its Governance costs, and it it paid just 18 of its employees a total of £1.2 Million pounds in one year. So you asked can my source be trusted?
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:53 a.m.
Well its all there in the RSPCA Annual review for 2007 – Trustees and Financial report (on the RSPCA web site). If the people at Passionate Productions really cared about animals perhaps they should of investigated the people who pay the that former TV presenter as their CHIEF vet!! And ask why an organisation who had access to over £320 million pounds in one year still destroys over 7,500 dogs...now that is a dogs story that should be exposed
Genie November 13, 2008 at 3:03 p.m.
Dogs are not trophies!!
They should be able to live normal lives not have their future depnd on what standards they reach.
Culling dogs because they not breeding material is just disgusting. what right do we have to determine their future like that?!
Dogs that don't meet standards should be handed over and re-homed so that they can be loved and have a normal life not killed.
It's not their fault so why should they be punished for it?
I'm ashamed to be the same species as anyone who thinks that this is acceptable...
#1 Doggy Lover November 11, 2008 at 6:26 p.m.
when people cull pups just bcause they dont meet "breed standerds" its just Cruelty!!!
and also on the tv programme pedigree dogs exposed the kennel club manager admitted mating grandparents and grandchildren thats just wrong!!!
eddlol November 11, 2008 at 8:13 a.m.
its mean to kill ridge back pups just because they dont have a ridge. those pups have NOT got a desies and the kennel club say its a rule.
Mags53 October 26, 2008 at 9:59 p.m.
mebecki - dogs don't want the same life as a human, they want the same life as a dog. They want freedom to express natural behaviour, to have the chance to run and sniff, and to eat decent food; they want the kindness and loyalty of their owner, whom they will follow to the end of the earth. niblats - the KC represent pedigree dogs and crossbreed dogs, and not all pedigree dogs are disasters; hardly any of them are - before you make statements like that find out what percentage have problems then compare that with the percentage of humans and other species that are "disasters". I think that people are mistaking pedigree dogs as all having been bred on puppy farms and, therefore, having behavioural and health issues - they don't have.
sirius October 25, 2008 at 11:08 p.m.
Niblats the primary objective of the Kennel Club is 'to promote in every way, the general improvement of dogs'. This includes its work with pedigree, cross breeds and companion animal. So what makes you think they are NOT working for the benefit of ALL dogs............ can you names one organisation that raise so much money for canine causes each year (through its charitable and its educational trusts, well over £3,000,000 donated todate), defends the rights of ALL dog owners(campaigning against the use of electric shock collars, dangerous dogs, puppy farming, chemicals testing on dogs, dog and cat fur, dog control orders and access at local and national levels of goverment) the school education schemes (SAS), the YKC, the good citizen training scheme, all the health checks schemes with the BVA,Discover Dogs, Scrufts, Working Trials and the setting up and running of the Petlog Scheme, and this is just a very small amount of work they do each year.......so Niblats would you say all this work has been a disaster??
niblats October 25, 2008 at 9:29 p.m.
quite frankly, I think the kennel club should stop and think about whether they are representing pedigree dogs or pedigree disasters.
mebecki October 17, 2008 at 3:46 p.m.
I think that pedigree dogs should get the same life style as if the dog was a human. They shoulld get feed and have a proper home.
sirius October 16, 2008 at 9:20 p.m.
Well Dawnie you put in your blog the following “My puppy is 25 weeks old and is very sick, i have had numerous visits to the vet, with her being treated for a severe case of kennel cough and masticatory myositis and she has now developed problems in her front legs. Inbreeding is causing these animals great distress and i would like to see these breeders and the kennel club brought to task” both the conditions you say your dog has are common to all dogs regardless of what or how they may be bred, neither are the caused of a genetic inheritance. Yet you go onto blame breeders and the Kennel Club for inbreeding, so if they are not linked why blame them?!? Resistance to infectious disease is not just about genetics, it also is to do with nutrition, environment, previous infections/illnesses . Masticatory myositis can affect many breeds/and non breeds of dogs as it would appear not to be inherited, yet the mode of inheritance or the frequency in dogs is still being investigated by breeders working WITH the veterinary practitioners, good breeder do care and strive to improve the health and welfare of their dogs. You say about needing stricter guidelines on breeding healthier dogs the following is what the KC recommends “Before breeding from a dog or bitch, the Kennel Club advises breeders to investigate whether there are any possible inherited conditions that may affect the breed. Breeders can do this by discussing the matter with the breeder of their dog, the relevant breed club or clubs, the Kennel Club Health & Information Department or, possibly, their veterinary surgeon. There are several health schemes currently in operation to assist in the prevention or control of some diseases (including DNA tests), and where they exist, the Kennel Club strongly recommends that both sire and dam are tested” The following is from the British Veterinary Association/Kennel Club report for 2007 “Joint Veterinary Screening Schemes with the B VA, The three schemes (KC/BVA Hip and Elbow Schemes and the KC/BVA/ISDS Eye Scheme) have continued to see increased submission rates. Approximately 11,500 certificates were processed by the BVA for the Hip Scheme, 1,400 for the Elbow Scheme and 18,000 for the Eye Scheme. The Kennel Club has made a commitment to use this health screening data to provide more informed feedback on the impact and progress of the schemes to breeders, with the intent of encouraging greater use. To this end, 5-year rolling mean hip scores for all of those breeds where more than 100 dogs have been scored are now being calculated. In almost all cases, this mean is falling year-on-year, indicating that hip scoring is having the desired effect, namely reducing the average hip score in future generations.” So in 2007 alone in just three of the schemes almost 32,000 examinations took place and these schemes have been running for many many years now, the work put in by the BVA,KC and breeders show THEY CARE and HAVE been taking action.
Dawnie October 16, 2008 at 7:38 p.m.
i never once said that kennel cough is caused by inbreeding i know it's a virus, however the other health issues my dog has, has just made me think that in general these dogs would be healthier and have a fightng chance to overcome some of the more commom ailments if stricter guidelines on breeding were put place.
sirius October 16, 2008 at 4:49 p.m.
Well Whippet let’s check out some of YOUR claims on here on the 27 Sept you criticized Mags 53 by saying "The reason that dogs trusts and animal welfare society's are so full of un-homed dogs is because people of your ideology have set standards of how a particular animal should look” Well there are over 850 Breed Rescue representative covering ALL the registered breeds(I can send you a list if you like), covering all over the country funded entirely by Breed clubs and individuals within breeds. The homes that any rescue dog is placed in are vetted to high standards, and the care of the dog is put above all other concerns, RSPCA REFUSE to work with breed clubs (unlike Battersea). Pedigree dog owners and breeder take great responsibility for their own breeds. If you look at the vast majority of dogs in rescue centres they are cross breed or mongrels, so how do you support you claim that the set standards of how a dog should look is the reason for these homes being full of un-homed dogs?!?!?!
sirius October 16, 2008 at 2:27 p.m.
Well Whippet you think I am boasting do you?? Why is that?? All I have written is things that I can back up with evidence by recognised published bodies and also after a lifetime in dogs (both pedigree and non pedigree) with over 35 years of experience in breeding and showing dog, working on Breed Club Committees, raising funds for welfare homes, dealing with breed rescue, as a Trustee of a canine welfare charity. My dogs first and foremost are my pets and companions. The breeds I have like ALL DOGS (not just pedigree) have some health conditions and I have worked over the years to reduce these, like all in my breed have, people who have devoted much of their life to a breed see themselves as just custodians and strive to keep that breed healthy and happy and protected. I am sure Mags 53 can stand up for their self, but you say that my comments are ill informed, subjective and disrespectful and without substantiation, please tell me just which ones have been and (as you say they are wrong tell me what proof you have?) I have only replied to comments posted by others. Tell me how many breed standards have you read and disagreed with there are approx 210 of them, just how many of them do you say are wrong? you say that breeds need to have their gene pools widen, are you not aware of the many hundreds of dogs imported from across the world each year to here to do that? The numbers of puppies from AI produced from dogs abroad (supported by the KC) each year, or the dogs that the KC have put on its register to allow gene pools to be extended (the Working Bloodhounds last year, the allowance of boxers to be crossed with Corgi to have a natural shorten tail) the practice you say takes place of inbreeding has for the past 30+ years rarely taken place with the exception of Puppies farmers who cannot be bother to, widen their gene pools (they are also unlike to register any dog with the KC but still will want to call them pedigrees). On 27/9 you said “Breed standards = profit. Either financial gain to a breeder or a farmer” so what of the people who now advertise cross breeds in the paper for £300, are they doing it for the love of dogs or money? You said that animals “should evolve by evolutionary laws” the vast majority of breeds have done so be that the climate or environmental areas they have come from, can the same be now said of the “Designer Breeds” like Cockerpoos or Labradoodles??? You said from a professional point of view that I need to do more research, please what is your professional standing and how much ACTUAL scientific and practical research have you done? You like to brand others with shame and labeling them as not being animal lovers.................. well be open and listen to others people knoweldge, experience and views, learn before you decide to shame others quite so quickly.
Mags53 October 16, 2008 at 12:25 p.m.
I post to these blogs from both a professional and personal viewpoint, with many years experience of owning and breeding animals. I view all subjects objectively not subjectively and do not have pre-conceived views on topics, I always look at the facts from all sides before forming an opinion - and am always willing to change my opinion if new facts prove that I am wrong; I accept that people are entitled to their own opinion and no one opinion is always right or wrong. I have never said here that all pedigree dogs or other types of pedigree animal are ALL free of devastating health problems BUT refute absolutely the premise that ALL pedigree dogs, etc. are genetically compromised and suffer lives of pain and ill health - because I have owned them for years and know that they are not. The damage done through this programme is that the RSPCA have alienated people who would have helped with improving things by stating, categorically, that ALL pedigree dogs are genetic mutants (and that term has a very specific meaning in genetic terms) and live a life of pain. Owners and breeders of pedigree dogs have worked for years to raise funds for the RSPCA and the RSPCA themselves have been given thousands of pounds by the Kennel Club for research projects raised by donations from the dog showing, working and competing world. It saddens me when extremists with a biased and sweeping view of subjects think that they are right in everything they say and take people who have a little knowledge with them. I wonder how many people who are posting here are aware of the actions taken by the KC since this programme? Actions that were already in the pipeline for the benefit of some of the breeds badly affected by health issues - and yes there are some where I think that the people who breed them should be horse-whipped - but as I've said before, these breeds are very much in the minority.
whippet October 15, 2008 at 8:18 p.m.
Can I just say from a professional view point, regarding the comments of Sirius and mags53, that you really do need to do some more research before boasting such comments to this blog. Your comments are as ill informed as they are subjective. They are also disrespectful and without substantiation, and therefore are not worthy of reply. Call yourself s animal lovers...you are the very people we are campaigning against.
Mags53 October 14, 2008 at 7:47 p.m.
I've just noticed that one or two comments here seem to indicate that people show their dogs at shows for financial gain. I'd just like to point out that at most shows all that you win is a piece of card saying what place you were awarded. The Crufts Best in Show winner receives the sum of £100 for beating several thousand other dogs - so we don't do it to win money - it costs you money.
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:39 p.m.
Jelly cat yes it was a long comment but it is a very big subject of which many people only pick on one point and not the whole picture.
Megank, well if you want to blame the anyone for how Greyhounds are the Kennel Club is the last place, as they are a vulnerable breed ie there is less than three hundred dogs registered with them each year (in truth only about 10 litters are registered) the shape of the modern greyhound is all to do with racing dog, of which the Kennel Club HAVE NEVER had any say/control. If you a programme wants to expose THE biggest exploitation of dogs it should be the greyhound industry which has very little regulation or control and thousands of dogs are discarded by each year , after all how many other breeds have to have National Rescue trust for them? As breed Pugs and Bulldogs are things I do not find attractive (but many do thats why they are popular pets) however again many believe what they are shown on TV when just ONE old photo or ONE copy of a painting is SELECTED/USED to what the PRODUCERS of a programme say a breed SHOULD look like. Look at a number or old books and paintings and you will see there were many many different TYPEs within each breed as there still are today!!! (a little anatomy point for you a pig has a snout, a dog has a muzzle), Bulldogs and Pugs ears have stayed the same over 100 years and are no different now as they were then!?! So not sure why you say they are smaller?!?
megank October 12, 2008 at 9:41 a.m.
did you know, pugs, bulldogs, and basset hounds werent always like they are now!! they had long legs, little ears and long snouts. But because of imperfect breeding, they had become small , squatty, wrinkled nosed dogs that many think are ugly. Greyhounds are becoming vunerable to this as people are force breeding them to become better athletes, but instead what they'll get is a bad backed dog with limp legs that has to be put down.
Please help put a stop to this and help protect our beautiful dog breeds!!!
Jelly Cat Jen October 12, 2008 at 9:21 a.m.
This was WaaaaaaaaaaaaaaY to looooooooooooooong
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:22 a.m.
Sorry manage to put my blog the wrong way round!!! well I am not a techie when it comes to PC, but please look at what I have said and I willbe happy to discuss or defend any point I have put and listen to what you think.
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:17 a.m.
PART 3 NOtned yes the KC does have it head quarters in London but so does the RSPCA (I wonder if saying that will stop this blog?) but every year all the profits it makes from Crufts and any from the registration system goes back into canine Welfare via its charitable trust (the RSPCA have just had £45,000 from it) it also provides education support for schools and children on how to handle care and behave around dogs, it produces a Rescue Directory each year that lists the thousands of people who work for breed rescues and general canine charities and send it free to all police stations and vets all over the country and to anyone who requests a copy . KT & Dilian well you might disagree with Crufts but have you ever been to it (or the other 28 general championship shows held each year?) what people forget is all the dogs shown are living with people and are in the vast majority of cases people much loved pets. In fact most show dogs are far better tempered as they need to be physically examined by the judge (in some cases up to 5 judges in one day) and be in a ring with many many others dogs. The KC will in fact ban any dog who has been proved to have bitten a person or another dogs at a show, and will not allow any progeny they may be produced to be registered (there for stopping them from being shown or bred from) are any mongrels tested in this way? Sorry if this has upset many people but this is just the tip of the iceberg as to the misinformation by this programme and many comments post by people who have not looked at the full picture. Just to quantify myself I have been involved in dogs for over 40 years and am a third generation of a family who have shown, bred and loved their dogs, I work for a local canine society, I judge at Championship level shows (and temperament and soundness is key above anything for me!!!) and I am a trustee of a canine charity who deals with rescue and street dogs . I will be the first to admit that there are many bad practices in pedigree dogs but this programme was unbalance , bias, inaccurate, and in some cases has now made the plight of all dogs far worse, to quantify I now see people purposely breeding mongrel litters with NO health checks, no guarantee to take back the dog (as all responsible breeders do) but charge instead £ 400, which just goes into the pocket and the poor dogs I suspect into rescue centre in a years time!!
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:17 a.m.
PART 2 The KC and the many vets schools have been working (and funding)not just in this country but all over the world to find new DNA test to reduce and eliminate. This program set out to sensationalise and showed just how poor it was researched and biased it was. The claim that £10M is spent each week on dogs at vets, did they say on what?? This would include vaccinations, check ups, caring after accidents, infections and diseases , these thing affect ALL dogs. The claim the Members of the Kennel Club were followers of HItlers was deeply offending!!! Eugenics is not a Evil plot to produce a PURE BLOOD race, it is the same thing practice by horse breeders or plant growers or anyone who looks to preserve a species/breed, the main proponent of this is Mother Nature herself, after a Lion is cat and so is a Tiger but they do not mate together do they!!! And as for in breeding in a wolf pack only the dominate female allowed to breed, and then when she is usurped normally by her daughter then only she will breed, well this means that genetic material of the pack will get reduced far more than any one who may line breed. As for the sad shot in the programme of the Boxer who fitted, the produces failed (they say it was an error) to mention that it does so only once a month and not as it was portrayed in the programme a several times a day, but I agree once a moth is too much. However did the mention all the work done by breed clubs and the Kennel club on this matter...No of course they didn’t, the same as the vet who was interviewed for an hour but only a few seconds of film was used and out of context as it did not match the message the producers wanted to give!!! In reply to Jess who rightly say many cross breeds and mongeral dogs need home, but can she tell me how many of these are checked for hip eye, patella, temperament problems?? No because people who breed them cant be bothered!!! And yes they do suffer with these problems. .
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:16 a.m.
Having read through the comments on this site I find it hard to understand how many people manage to get some simple things , the person who thinks their dog has Kennel Cough as it is inbred!!! ITS A VIRUS ANY DOG CAN CATCH IT!!!. (well the produce of the programme think that her dog got cancer as it was inbred, so does that mean all people who have cancer are inbred!!, of course not emotions and sense do not always work together) Jean Levit not about one of her poor dogs that suffer with epilepsy it would of appeared to have bought from a Kennel that sell on dogs such places are dealers/puppy farmers and not reputable breeders who do such health check (did you have the status of the pups parents hips and eyes given to you?) if you had researched yourself with the help of the Kennel Club or Breed clubs you could of gone to a good breeder, yet you say you don’t register dogs at the KC as you say it is cruel and so is Crufts , yet they are the one who have and are doing the work and test you have chosen not to take advantage of?!? As for Penny who call for a country wide database of dogs who have failed test, well this is run by the Kennel club who publish all passes and fails of dogs in the KC/BVA test in the Breed Record Supplements 4 times a year (again the programme failed to mention any of this!!) As for Chloe who praises Mark Evans whos says dogs shows are cruel for dogs, yet how many have visited? (I doubt ever been to a dog show,?) If he has how many in the past year? Five years? 20 years? And how many of the dog there did he examine ? surely he must have his own personal evidence to back up the claim that show dogs are mutants and cripple?!?, as for discrimination for the colour of a dogs coat it has been proven that some colours are linked with hereditary problems (ie pure white boxer are often totally deaf), the vast majority of dogs have developed over many hundreds of years by either the environment they have come from or the purpose they were used for (a basic principle of Darwin) For well over 30 years good breeders have had their dogs checked through the Kennel Club/B.V.A Health Scheme for many conditions (over £20,000,000 on hip scoring alone in recent years) this has enabled them to breed sounder healthier dogs, and have reduced many problems that breeds have faced in the past
Laila October 11, 2008 at 10:45 a.m.
I cant help but feeling angry and disgusted with the people breeding dogs that will have poor quality of life due to inbreeding. I cannot understand that this is being allowed. It simply has to stop, before it gets more out of control.
Mags53 October 7, 2008 at 9:33 p.m.
The Kennel Club aren't strict about what you show and the breed standards. They may "own" the standards but it is the seperate breeds who define their standards. The breed standards are relatively vague and allow for a great deal of individual interpretation, that's why you get so many different types within breeds, and you do have some very different types within the same breed. Judges who reward over exaggeration are a problem - quickly followed by breeders who breed to that to win BUT not all breeders and judges do this. So long as the dog is actually registered with the KC you can show it; this does largely mean that it has to have had parents, etc. that are registered. Basset hounds that are still used as pack hounds a very different from the ones that are now shown BUT I could get a pack hound and show it so long as I had made sure that it is KC registered - I may not win with it but the KC would allow me to show it - it would be the judges who wouldn't reward it. The KC and breed clubs have done lots of work in recent years to improve the health of breeds who have health issues - no-one is saying that they don't need to do more and in some cases to be much more stringent with a few breeds that have issues. BUT, as I said at the start, alienating all people who own and breed pedigree dogs by saying that they are all mutants, with ill health, who live a life of pain is counterproductive and, frankly, so far from the truth, that only the easily duped, the ignorant or the prejudiced would take it seriously.
cullamubba October 7, 2008 at 9:02 p.m.
i dont think it is what actually happens in the shows themselves, i think it is the way it is judged, or rather the strictness of the kennel club. if they werent soo strict on what they were looking for, breeders wouldnt feel the need to exaggerate the features the judges look for, the gene pools wouldnt be soo small and the diseases wouldnt be soo much of a problem. at least noadays people are more aware of what they are doing and breeders that may have bred their dogs the wrong ways unknowingly, may now be aware of it and so it is happening less but if crufts and the kennel club continue to be soo strict on what they consider to be the 'perfect look' of each breed, the problem will still exist in breeders insistant on achieving this look. also whilst these breeds are promoted on crufts, the public will still want them making it a worthwhile buisness for things like puppy farms. no one is questioning what happens in the shows themselves, or at least i'm not. it's the message they are putting across to the public and more importantly what is not being told, i.e. what the BBC documentary did tell.
Mags53 October 7, 2008 at 6:15 p.m.
Whether Crufts is televised or not is a whole different argument, it was around for years before the telly got involved. There are hundreds of shows every year where people show their dogs, some of which qualify them for Crufts. Not shows like the Companion show held at the local fete, but run on similar lines to Crufts, which is just another championship show. These shows also sometimes include agility, obedience, etc. Crufts and other shows aren't just about the dogs, the handlers skills at handling their dog is also partly under test. The concept of Crufts and the KC isn't what causes problems in dogs but unscrupulous breeders/puppy farmers - they are what need to be stopped. I think that many people who have been blogging on this site have a limited knowledge about pedigree breeds and dog shows.
cullamubba October 7, 2008 at 11:08 a.m.
i dont disagree with the showing of dogs or agility at all. i'd love to get my younger dog involved in agility. the problem with crufts is the perception it gives of pedigree dogs and that they are ment to look a certain way. years and years ago people picked certain traits to use in hunting or whatever and thats where to trouble start but to be fair, people all those years ago didnt know what damage they would cause in the future. the problem now is that it is still happening when breeders (again not saying all breeders) are fully aware of what it's doing and the reason it is still happening is because soo few people are aware of the problems so are more than willing to pay hundreds for a pedigree pup that may well have health problems. i'm not saying all pedigree breeds have health problems because i have a pedigree westie and a pedigree sheltie and nether have had any health problems, or at least no genetic ones. the problem with crufts is that it is promoting these breeds to the public sat at home watching, most of whom wont be aware of the problems. so i dont disagree with showing in general and i'm not saying that dogs dont like it cos i know my dogs love anything like that where they get attention and praise but crufts is way too specific on the dogs look etc which is why it shouldnt be televised because it gives the wrong message to people watching. the people showing and alot of the people who actually go to watch are probably well aware of all of this stuff anyway so it doesnt need to be stopped altogether just revised on how it's judged, and promoting a better message to those watching. i just dont think it should be on tv.
Mags53 October 6, 2008 at 8:13 p.m.
I don't think that dogs should be neutered/spayed just so that owners can let them roam - I don't believe in putting any animal to an operation for no good reason - cats are a different matter, it is cruel to try to keep them at home all of the time. I know that accidents happen but that's what the morning after pill is for. I know LOTS of people who have spayed bitches a huge percentage suffer from a degree of incontinence and neutered dogs are often mounted by both dogs and bitches, it's cruel to do this unless they need it to cure a medical problem. And, I still say that NOT ALL PEDIGREE DOGS ARE SICK AND IN PAIN. Please do not brand all breeds the same - lets get everyone on board to help to sort out the breeds that do need help AND to expose the breeders who breed from dogs that have not been health tested. I have a dog with me now who is 9 years old and has not been to the vet since his last booster jab at 1 year old (I don't believe in annual boosters because they can cause damage) - he is fit and healthy AND A GOOD PEDIGREE WHO HAS COMPETED AT CRUFTS. I show my dogs as I have fun and so do they - and if they don't have fun I don't make them, they are after all my pets, going to shows is what we do together, some people do obedience or agility, I do shows. By the way, you can show speyed and neutered dogs.
cullamubba October 6, 2008 at 4:49 p.m.
I've been doing alot of research on this subject for a course i'm doing and i'm finding it very hard to find anything good that comes from crufts to actually make a good arguement for an essay. but anyway my main reason for posting is i've noticed that at least 1 person on this topic has said that theres no reason to spay/neuter dogs just because they have health issues, and also that theres health risks involved in the procedure. i would just like to set this one straight. dogsdo not have the mental capacity (as much as we might like to think so) to understand the implications of bringing more pups into this world whether we are talking inherited health issues or just adding to the growing overpopulation problem in this country. they breed by instinct, they do not have an emotional need to breed so there is no way you can compare them to a human who will bring a child into this world and care for it for at least 18 years and never stop loving it. there are no major risks involved with the procedure itself and any health issues that occur because of it such as incontenence in females, is soo uncommon that it barely stands up as an arguement not to spay/neuter. as for believing that you can simply not let ur dog out to be able to breed, i find that very naive. accidents happen and spaying/neutering is the only way to ensure you will not bring any more unwanted pups into this world when shelters are already heaving with perfectly good dogs looking for homes, many of which will never get and will end up being put down. the whole crufts issue only adds to this problem as breeders are bringing more and more pups along and encouraging the mostly unknowing public to buy them. i'm not saying people should stop breeding altogether, but it should be regulated and people should be encouraged to go to shelters more than breeders. i have 2 pedigree dogs myself, both bought long before i was aware of any of these issues but i can safely say had i known all of this i would have gone striaght to a shelter!
skaletto October 5, 2008 at 8:56 p.m.
there should be an end to it - and puppy farming - there are enough dogs in shelters who need help, they are the ones who need homes.
it's not only the kennel club that are wrong here, it's also the customers of the kennel club. people should boycott getting the 'perfect pet' - that's the only way this will stop. however there are certain members of society who just simply do not care for animal welfare; they just want a cute pet!! i can almost guarantee that even after this programme, some people will continue funding crufts and the kennel club.
my dog is super cute and he's a rescue - as dollymay62 said, you can't beat a cross breed!!
whippet October 5, 2008 at 7:39 p.m.
I agree totally with you Dawnie, we could still have our breeds of dog, for they already exist, but, because of the kennel club, they are becoming increasingly inbred to meet 'show standard' requirements. Very sad, not just from a Canine point of view, but from a humane point of view as well. We need to boycott such establishments, and add variety to these dogs gene pool. Stop showing dogs, stop breed standards, stop inbreeding. They are living creatures that look up to us...lets show them some respect.
Dawnie October 5, 2008 at 1:53 p.m.
I wished i had seen this program before buying my Cavalier King Charles puppy from who i believed to be a reputable breeder. My puppy is 25 weeks old and is very sick, i have had numerous visits to the vet, with her being treated for a severe case of kennel cough and masticatory myositis and she has now developed problems in her front legs. Inbreeding is causing these animals great distress and i would like to see these breeders and the kennel club brought to task. How dare these individuals be so arrogant in their attitude towards inbreeding. We as a society do not tolerate inbreeding amongst humans and the same should apply to all animals.I am not sure my puppy is going to survive her illnesses and this has made me more determined to ensure irresponsible breeders and puppy farms are closed down .
Horse Love October 5, 2008 at 12:23 p.m.
In a way the pedigree dog industry is rather like human modeling. there is a set standard that has to be met to be 'perfect' and 'beutiful' so all my peers spend they're time dieting and worrying about they're shape height and weight in oder to be perfect. If it wasn't for the modelling they wouldn't bother and they would stop starving themselves and having plastic surgery. The way I look at it though all people and dogs have good and bad featcures wether they are models or barmaids and should be appreciated for they're individual good featcures.
Lex October 4, 2008 at 9:30 p.m.
I have had Cavalier King Charles Spaniels since I was six years old. For 19 years I have had this breed in my life and they have been such loyal and fun pets. I currently have two, one of which has a heart murmur and the other which was given the all clear two weeks ago (It was such a relief). Working in the veterinary profession I see so many Cavaliers coming into practice who are in very sorry states. The owners, who bought these pets from reputable breeders believing that the dogs were healthy. I just hope that it is not too late for my beloved breed. What I saw on Pedigree dogs exposed was not at all surprising, however I was absolutely sickened when a dog won best in show when it was diagnosed with syringomyelia. I am glad that she was confronted. In my opinion, she deserved to be outed because what she did is sickening. She should not be allowed to own these beautiful dogs.
Now, the Kennel Club have logged a complaint with Offcom against the BBC for their documetary. What were they afraid of? That finally their lack of ethics has been brought to the attention of the British public? That the Head of the Kennel Club himself is involved with inbreeding his dogs? Who knows. The fact still remains that the poor dogs are the ones who are suffering. I saw well done to the RSPCA and the Dogs Trust for pulling out of Crufts, Discover Dogs etc.
I could not believe the audacity of the Ridgeback breeder who said they had to go to an old vet to get the healthy ridgless pups put down. What century are we living in? When healthy animals are put to sleep and for what? Nothing. These are healthy dogs who are being put to sleep, just because they don't fit in a breed standard? It is about time that the Government do something about this because in a few years, certain breeds are going to be disappearing and the Kennel Club will only have themselves to blame.
EKC September 30, 2008 at 7:22 p.m.
I did some work at a vets a while ago, one of the most distressing things i saw was a bull dog, having been artificially inseminated by the breeder, now having to undergo a ceasarean section to birth 3 pups, one still born, the other two died within 24 hours. I found out that most bull dogs cannot naturally give birth because of their size and build, surely that's nature saying it's gone too far, how are people allowed to continue breeding them?
vigilante September 28, 2008 at 7:42 p.m.
I have not read every item on this subject but what I could not understand was.how did the rspca with the new animal law let the cavies'that were suffering with this problem and reguarly fitting and being held to the floor, exibiting to what only be discribed as 'stress and unnecerssary suffering.how can you go to someone door to check their animals, having failed to eleviate those dogs suffering or did it do some good by helping to raise funds for yourselves.you have to live by what you preach!!!.
whippet September 27, 2008 at 10:06 p.m.
In response Mags53- Breed standards = profit. Either financial gain to a breeder or a farmer. There is no consideration to the animals here at all. What you are talking about here is breeding animals to an accepted standard. They will obviously be: inbred, genetically demised and suffering pain all their lives-just to suite our requirements. I tend to put the needs of animals before my own. The reason that dogs trusts and animal welfare society's are so full of un-homed dogs is because people of your ideology have set standards of how a particular animal should look. I think that what you are advocating is eugenics with in animal species. Something that does equate to a Nazi Germany.
Hayley1 September 27, 2008 at 7:22 p.m.
The Crux of the problem is inbreeding at all levels . Reducing genetic diversity results in unhealthy dogs . What needs to be done? Ban linebreeding, open the stud books and insist on occasional outcrosses to other breeds. It's really not that difficult.
Mags53 September 23, 2008 at 11:34 p.m.
Response to whippet - are you opposed to any thoroughbred or pedigree animal? I don't see anything wrong in breeding to a known type or trait, i.e. pedigree breeding, per se, such as Hereford or Jersey cattle, Sussex sheep, Rhode Island Red chickens, Indian Runner ducks or for that matter wild animal species that conservationists are trying to keep pure bred. Does that make all people who want to maintain these different breeds, both domesticated and wild, Nazis? By the way, written down breed standards (for dogs, cattle, chickens, etc., etc.) came AFTER the different breeds were developed for the purpose for which they were developed, for example, the trait of herding or guarding livestock, the size of the animal they were expected to herd or guard against, the terrain they herded over and the colour they needed to be to make sure that they could either blend in with the animals they were herding/guarding or stand out from the animals they were herding/guarding - some of these breeds are still used for the purpose that they were developed. Examples, sheep guarding in the mountains of Europe, hunting for the natives in Africa - yes, it's not just us British "Nazis" who have developed breeds to help us with our lives - you try telling someone who needs a guide dog that they can no longer be guaranteed one because it's more difficult to get hold of a dog that will be trainable because soemone somewhere decided that it was no longer ok to breed to a standard so that you know what size and temperament and capability any puppy may have. I suppose that you either think that we shouldn't keep pet dogs or, as we should no longer decide what we mate our dogs to, that we should just leave them wandering around mating with what-so-ever they want to mate with - the RSPCA and Dogs Trust are stuffed full of the results of this. No-one in their right mind thinks that it's ok to breed animals with genetic defects but not all pedigree breeds/dogs have genetic defects and some mongrels are born with genetic defects. In fact, genetic defects are rife in the human species and we don't interbreed - although we are pedigrees, I suppose, as we conform to a standard, it's just not written down.
rspca under 8teenz September 22, 2008 at 6:59 p.m.
Watching this program made me think of all the pedigree dogs in pain it must be hell for them and the breders can only think about the money.This has actually put me off pedigree dogs.You look how many diseases German shepherds have they have to be hip scored,eye scored and loads of things.Maybe in some way we could breed them back to how they were.But still it would take a lot of work and more than one.
whippet September 20, 2008 at 9:20 p.m.
In response to your comments Mags53-can you imagine if the human race had "breed standards" imposed upon it? Could you ever imagine legislation that allowed that" some breed standards have been changed in recent years to try to ensure improvements in some breeds where breeders and judges have allowed exaggeration to creep in". These are surely the words of a Nazi Germany. To quote "one of the breeds still look much the same as they do in the old paintings that I have dotted around the house" so evolution has been denied its course here then, and the genetic demise of these animals continues. Shame on you. Animal lover.
Mags53 September 20, 2008 at 2:10 p.m.
Welcome to Eisor and German Shepherd for your comments. The kennel club in this country (and most of those abroad) are run as non-profit making bodies AND do not profit from puppy breeding, monies that they make are reinvested into the world of dogs, they run health schemes and co-operate with organisations, like the RSPCA, and pay for research at places like Cambridge Veterinary School (in fact, much of the data used by this dreadful programme was taken from a reasearch programme paid for by the KC at Cambridge in their intent to improve the health of dogs). The KC also allows non-pedigree dogs to be registered with them to enable them to compete in KC regulated Agility and Obedience shows. They run a VOLUNTARY registration scheme - and dog shows are NOT beauty shows, they are confirmation and movement shows - no aspiring judge goes on a beauty seminar BUT they do go on confirmation and movement seminars. The breed standards have been much the same for years so in reality the dogs bred today should look as they did 100 years ago - some breed standards have been changed in recent years to try to ensure improvements in some breeds where breeders and judges have allowed exaggeration to creep in. I have gundogs and they are still multi-functional - one of the breeds still look much the same as they do in the old paintings that I have dotted around the house. So, please, stop blaming the KC, all breeders and all breeds for all of the ills in the pedigree dog scene, most dogs and breeds are as fit and well as the human species who own them - generalising that they are all the same is stupid and is never going to get anyone anywhere - especially the dogs. As for people who breed brother to sister; mother to son, etc. - that is seriously frowned upon BUT wild animals do do that, to animals that isn't seen to be the same as it is to us humans - thinking that animals think the same as us is a bit like buying them clothes and dressing them-up - they are not people, in fact, they are better than most people and would be very amused at the furore about this as they gallop about trying just once more to catch that bird on the edge of the field!! I'm not saying that some breeds don't have issues, that some breeders (especially puppy farmers) aren't money grabbing at the cost to the dogs and that some dogs are not very ill - but saying that that is the KCs fault and that all breeds,breeders are as bad is like saying that all humans are cruel to their animals!!
whippet September 19, 2008 at 9 p.m.
I think we need to a) educate the public a lot more on animal welfare, something that should be instilled in people at an young age and b)except the fact that dogs (like all other creatures) should evolve by evolutionary laws and not those imposed by some self imposed jumped up establishment. Any establishment that exploits or makes financial gain from animals should be outlawed.
chatname September 19, 2008 at 8:11 p.m.
I think the answer lies in educating the public. I've had Terveuren Belgian Shepherds for a number of years and as a breed they can have health problems. The answer is to go to a breeder who carries out health screening and who cares about the breed, I've been good friends with the breeder of my first belgian for 18 years. Don't get me wrong I love all dogs and have had cross breeds and mongrels also. If people are going to buy a pedigree puppy they should thoroughly research the possible problems can occur with the particular breed that interests them and ask for proof from breeders about what health screening they carry out on dogs that are bred from. If the breeder doesn't carry out health screening designed to eliminate problems in the breed DO NOT BUY A PUPPY OR DOG FROM THEM. Also ask if it would be possible to speak to other people who have bought puppies from the breeder in the past. Most caring breeders would be happy and proud to do this. It's important to at least see the Mother with the puppies, temperament is as important as physical health. Whatever you think of shows like Crufts, they are a good place to go to see the breed that interests you and talk to breeders and people who have puppies of that breed. Go to more that one breeder, RESEARCH AND DO NOT BUY A PUPPY ON A WHIM. I'm not forgetting all the wonderful rescue dogs waiting for homes so please don't think that I'm only in favour of pedigree puppies. It should be possible to prosecute breeders who consistently breed dogs with crippling health problems, it's cold blooded cruelty to deliberately breed for characteristics that can cause deformity and pain. Would be possible to put advertisements on TV which tell people that they should ask to see proof of health screening of the parents when buying puppies? There are some breed clubs that advocate temperament testing which might help to screen out overly aggressive or nervous temperaments, and help to cut down the number of dog attacks but perhaps that's another issue.
shakeyjake September 19, 2008 at 5:45 p.m.
As an owner of boxers (can i say these are rescue dogs not puppies) i am alarmed by the rules of how a dog should look as per the kennel club. My last boxer was a white boxer, and according to KC rules at that time, should have been a dead boxer as his colour was not acceptable! He unfortunately also suffered from epilepsy, a common illness in this breed and this was probably the reason for him being in rescue. His illness (apart from the expense) was very distressing for him and ourselves. I doubt he or i would have had to go through this if people stopped interbreeding and modifying dogs unecessarily.
Liz
T.L.C. September 19, 2008 at 4:03 p.m.
Kennel Clubs supposedly have strict guidlines in which the breeders must follow. Sadly it all boils down to the almighty dollar bill. Across Canada and the U.S. dogs of poor health and condition are entered into showrings because the handler/breeder has the money to pay entry fee. Ive even seen cases where a promisary note was given, allowing dogs to be entered without payment. Rigid guidelines MUST be followed in order to protect the dogs and also the unsuspecting, uneducated buyer. Clubs must make mandatory inspections and must remove any and all breeders who make infractions on ANY rules. Pedgrees can be falsified and these too must be checked through legitimate databases. Licenses MUST be revoked and SURPRISE kennel inspections must take place. A one time infraction should receive a lifetime expulsion in my opinion. From hip dysplasia, cardiomyopathy, cherry eye, heart murmors, Wobblers Syndrome and epilepsy dogs having ANY of these illnesses should be removed from any and all breeding programs....this is up to the kennel clubs to monitor NOT the average joe public or Humane Societys! I have seen all too often stories like this one. Breeders who breed solely for income and who do not care when a dog, sick, healthy, deformed or on death's door get a whopping cash grab from the sale of that puppy and then leave the outcome, pain & expense in the hands of that owner. Sires and Dam's having major medical issues, being bred continuously to promote cash flow. Its insanity! The laws are lax and unjust and protect no one. Your puppy dies of a hereditary disease and the reimbursement is a replacement puppy from the very same breeder who sold you the sick one! And it goes on and on. Someone needs to step up to the plate and take action against unscrupulous breeders, who will, in time decimate countless breeds & break millions of hearts in their quest for greed. T.L.C.
German Shepherd September 19, 2008 at 11:51 a.m.
The programme was completely sensationalist and unfair. It was unfair to associate the Kennel Club with Nazisim.
It also failed to mention the health schemes which it has in place such as the Accredited Breeder Scheme. Furthermore, it did not mention that dogs who do not look healthy are not permitted to enter shows nor did it mention the charitable work undertaken by the Kennel Club Charitable Trust.
I, too, visited Crufts this year and found that the dogs were completely happy and were comfortable in the show ring. Did anyone mention that the KC stated that dogs who appeared to be distressed would not be allowed to part? No. I didn't think so!
Eisor September 19, 2008 at 10:30 a.m.
The TV program was sensationalised. The British Veterinary Association were not happy that hours of filming and interviews they gave willingly were left on the cutting room floor. Breeders and people like myself a pet owner who does care were not happy the program was so biased and did not give viewers the truth. For example when syringomyelia was discovered 7 years ago in cavaliers (it is a disease which affects all small dogs jack russell terrier types yorkies etc) the breed was found by Clare Rusbridge to be 90% affected. In seven years the breeders have got this down to 30% affected. The program has made breeders question why are they bothering if they are not being shown to be the caring people the majority are?
I have emailed and written constantly to Jemima Harrison over theyears and Jemima and I have had a lot of discussion on this, she said she wanted to shock, she was not interested in showing the improvements being made. I have sent her lots of information on the cruel puppy farms the dog dealers the commercial pet shops and the puppy smuggling trade and pleaded with her to make a program on this but I have not had a single reply to these. I have to ask why not? If you are concerned about animal welfare why are we going on about pedigree dogs when there is so much worse suffering to be sorted first? I gave information to a dog lover to watch for a dog dealer operating in her area, she watched and we were rewarded when with the help of the RSPCA we were able to get him banned from trading in the sick puppy farmed dogs he was regularly smuggling into the country.
Eisor September 19, 2008 at 10:28 a.m.
In the comments here I have noticed several things which I must take up with the posters. Firstly the majority of pedigree dog breeders do worry about the health and welfare of the puppies they produce, and do welcome all puppy owners keeping in touch and letting them know if they have problems. One reason for this is that if the breeders do not get feedback how can they possibly know that things are not going well? Hip Displaysia is a typical problem to get to grips with it breeders need to have every single puppy they breed x-rayed, not just the one they keep to breed on from. How many pet owners are willing to pay for this? I know from experience that nobody bothers at all!
I run eye testing clinics for dogs, they are always full of pedigree dog breeders testing their stock. We only see pet owners if something is wrong and of those the majority I see are not pedifrees! Many are first crosses like cocker poos and labradooldes, and more than that I see crossbred dogs of indeterminate breeding.
I ran a campaign with a breed to try to get every puppy tested for glaucoma, the results are interesting, all the breeders who belong to the breed clubs came and got their dogs tested. Pet owners said "Why should I it is expensive and I am not going to breed from my dog he/she is only a pet" The fact that glaucoma is the most awfully painful way for a dog to go blind didn't bother them at all. I was amazed.
dogwalker04 September 19, 2008 at 1:40 a.m.
I feel the Kennel Club is to be blamed for the deformities,afflictions and diseases currently dominating the dog breeds for pets. I thought it was well made but very harrowing. Dog shows like Crufts should be banned.. It’s just a beauty show and not something that reflects how healthy the dogs are… More should be made of how FEW defects the animals have and that means breeding dogs that are NOT related. Which as you know is going to be difficult due to there originally being so few that were the first dogs used as stock.
I think it is disgusting that close relatives (mother to son, Father to daughter etc) are encouraged to breed. We all know that this is what causes defects etc in animals and humans…
In the wild the puppies would be chased from the family pack to go out to be on their own, to fend for themselves.
The stress and pain caused by people sticking to a Breed Standard that is so outdated is laughable (if it wasn’t so heartbreaking)!
The breeders that were on the program were so narrow minded that they shouldn’t be allowed to breed dogs. All they care about is how much money they will get for the inferior puppies they breed.. More must be done to stop this and breed dogs that can do the job they were originally bred for.. What good is a German Shepherd if it can’t walk because the slope of it’s back inteferes with it’s gait and isn’t able to herd sheep has it was intended? Who cares that a Rhodesian Ridge back hasn’t got a ridge? Its just a cosmetic defect that the dogs don’t need anyway ,but breeders want it even though it causes ill health in the animals.
I think the Kennel Club should be investigated and people bought in who DO care about the dogs… healthwise and conformation. Less emphasis should be placed on conformation and MORE about healthy puppies who don’t get the deformities etc that are so detrimental the each specific breed. Something needs to be done NOW!
Mags53 September 18, 2008 at 10:05 p.m.
k.ate - there is no need to spey or neuter them, just be a responsble dog owner and don't let them out to mate - then the rescue centres wouldn't be stuffed full with unwanted cross-breeds. Speying and neutering can cause health problems and are unnecessary procedures - as everyone seems to be comparing dogs to humans, how would you like it if you had an hereditary illness (e.g. poor eyesight, arthritis, osteoperosis, gene for breast cancer, etc.) and someone whipped your testicles off/womb out? Some Bulldog lines (families) are fully capable of giving birth naturally - I do however agree that they are a far cry from what they were like when they were used for bull baiting - as no-one wants that practice back the breed has ceased to have a purpose to enable people to measure fit-for-purpose - should these breeds just be allowed to become extinct? Whilst we're on it, as we humans also carry and pass on hereditory illnesses and genes, and we've not followed the practice of close in-breeding where does that leave the argument that these health issues have been caused by in-breeding in dogs? You see, although the various breeds may have been originally created by close in-breeding for type (and yes, I expect sometimes too close for comfort), that was more than 100 years ago when the different breeds were created to perform specific jobs, close in-breeding is generally frowned upon and many of the breed clubs actively discourage members from doing such breeding.
k.ate September 18, 2008 at 7:35 p.m.
I think that all dogs that are ill should be automatically neutered. The same should apply to bitches that are not capable of giving birth normally. Naturally, she would die during a birth and her ill genes would not be passed to another generation. After the first cesaerian, the bitch should be neutered. Perhaps that would mean that bulldog disappear, but who does profit from the bulldog's existence? Certainly, not bulldogs themselves.
Mags53 September 18, 2008 at 12:56 a.m.
1. The KC have overseen changes in breed standards to promote healthier dogs (changing statements that could encourage extremes); 2. They have laid down a requirement for all judges that they penalise any thing that causes ill health; 3. The RSPCA distancing itself from pedigree dog breeding, the KC, CRUFTS and Discover Dogs is counter-productive - like turning your back if you see something is being done that is wrong; 4. Again, this programme made sweeping statements that lumped all breeds together - that is wrong; there are many, many breeds and thousands of pedigree dogs that do not have any health problems, that lead long and healthy lives, and that still perform the job for which they were originally bred; that still look like they did years ago and that still are capable of working and of winning at shows. 5. Pedigree breeders and the show world are not at fault - but, SOME people who breed pedigree dogs, SOME judges who judge at shows and SOME breed club members encourage or have become used to extremes that need to be changed - the KC and many, many people who show their dogs want this to change BUT alienating them by making the type of statements made in this programme and comparing them with nazis is NEVER going to help anyone or any breed. 6. By the way, I would be interested in the RSPCA Chief Vets comments on the Californian Sea Otter that at one point last century was down to just 50 animals, but who, thanks to careful protection and quite obviously a need for some close-inbreeding has now managed to hugely increase their numbers - and they manage to live as wild animals - does he think that they are all mutants?? By the way, I do not agree with close in-breeding coefficients UNLESS as with the otter, it is for the benefit of the animals NOT breeders.
sammyvanstaden September 16, 2008 at 2:49 p.m.
I did watch the programme, by the way. My mum and stepdad were repulsed as well as me and I wrote the KC a letter. I sent it off three weeks ago AND THEY SILL HAVEN'T REPLIED! If that has happened to anyone else please say
hannah September 16, 2008 at 11:44 a.m.
when i watched rspca with the pitballs and with other dogs i started to cry it was just sad i do not care if i just a kid or if some trys to stop me i will try help the animals i just hate seeing animals get really hurt!!
sammyvanstaden September 15, 2008 at 3:38 p.m.
When I saw the documentary about this I was absoloutly DISGUSTED. How could they do this sort of thing to dogs? All they want to do is to make their dogs look pretty but they should care more than that about the actual welfare of their pets. The suffering these people cause! This is exactly the same thing that HITLER did in the holocaust and anyone would be disgusted if that happened to humans again but they dont care about the animals! I feel so bad for the animals.
ZaraandTessie September 15, 2008 at 12:42 p.m.
There are some really good points on this page about the dog breeding. I have made a group on Face book and I am trying to get as many members to join the group as possible. Surely if we can get together and make a stand then surely the government will make inbreeding dogs against the law. Shows should be about showing the dog for its purpose, not vanity. All dogs are beautiful and should not be made to suffer. If I had the money and the space I would take them all in. And I'm sure the majority of you feel the same too. As the title of this webpage states... Animals don't have a voice so we need to stick together. You are all welcome to join my group on facebookhttp://www.new.facebook.com/people/55544875#/group.php?gid=45516551832
The images of the dogs on the programme were quite upsetting but I thought this is to make a point to infrom us, that this type of thing really happens.
Has anyone seen the articles on the news about a man holding his daughter prisoner and getting her pregnant, then the children were taken away because they had problems.
Why can't this behaviour be made illegal to do it to animals as it is with humans?
rspca under 8teenz September 13, 2008 at 11:45 a.m.
I think its absolutely disgraceful what breeders have done to these dogs.I go to Tring museum a lot and I personally think they were better looking back then.All I can say is the Kennel club has a lot to pay up.Especially for German shepherds (banana backs),Cavalier king Charles spaniel,British bulldog etc, etc.I have had a corgi cross collie,2 German shepherds(which both had straight backs)and now I have a puppy which is a German shepherd cross Belgian malinois.I have only one suggestion to (hopefully)to stop this EXTREMELY STUPID behaviour PETITION TIME!!!
LilMisB September 11, 2008 at 3:50 p.m.
when i watched this programme i was disgraced with the dog showing world. just because a dog may not have a percific marking or curl in its tail, doesnt mean it should be killed!
every dog is unique in its markings but they are just the same in the inside... dogs should be treated as humans they may not be exactly the same but you wouldnt kill a baby if it didnt have the right coloured eyes would you.
i am only young yet i still feel strongly about animal welfare unlike those cruel people who will quite happily kill a innocent puppy because they cant show it...:(
glanville September 10, 2008 at 3:31 p.m.
It's nice you are all still going on about saving the breed's, dose that mean helping pitt bulls as well you know the one's that's been crying out for us to help them for year's and yet are answer to that is KILL THEM all Even though that it's human's again that teaching them to fight or die. The only difference now is we are killing them by breeding them we need to BAND THE DEED'S AND SAVE THE BREED'S ALL OF THEM.
bobthedogman September 10, 2008 at 9:51 a.m.
I have always believed the problem lies squarely with the Kennel Club who appear to change the BREED STANDARDS to suit what the main breeders of each breed produce rather than making them conform to the original standard also by reducing the gene pool available therfore intoducing close breeding practises which are not of any benefit to the dogs, which after all are our supposed to be our first consideration Its not the dogs wishes to be put in this situation it's peoples vanity and ego
WolfGirl September 9, 2008 at 3:14 p.m.
I watched the progamme Pedigree Dogs exposed, and it showed some destirbing things. When they showed a dog having a fit, I cried. How could some people DO this??? It's sick and there's no point!!!
Greyhound1405 September 6, 2008 at 9:09 a.m.
Pedigree OWNERS, report EVERY case of a breed specific sick dog, to both the Breeder and The Kennel Club. Then they can have no excuse to lie and say that they know of of no other cases of defects, illnesses etc. Also report that you have done this to the RSPCA, so that they can follow up and sue breeders who continue to sell mutant puppies (like the CKC owner who won in the show then sold puppies even after her dog had been diagnosed), or put down perfectly healthy ones (E.g. Ridgebacks' owner in the film). Stop the cruelty now before these poor creatures completely die out just for show dog owners snobbish vanity. Also KC have a publicly accesible register of these cases, so we can avoid going to these selfish greedy breeders, until they have put their house in order. Name and shame them! KC we will support you and go to your accredited breeders IF we can trust you. At the moment it is looking as though we can't trust you... I brought my Westie from one of your accredited breeders and he has 'the Westie skin problem'! OWNERS if all else fails write to your local paper. Keep this ghastly business in the public eye. It is nearly as bad as Puppy farming. The onus is on you owners because some breeders appear to be unscrupulous and unless it does more to stop them, the KC is not at present doing enough to deter the bad breeders.
CharleySW September 5, 2008 at 7:14 a.m.
Yes maybe one sided but in some casses quite true. Some breed are in desperate need of an overhaul in order to make them fit for the purpose - which is? firstly to be able to survive fit and well secondly to work at whatever task they were designed for. Both my breeds, shown and worked, are relatively unaltered except for having grown a longer coat. The are still fit and well and can do the job they were designed for. As to pedigree dogs costing so much at the vets I wonder if it has been taken into account the amount we spend on health testing each animal in my breeds before even considering breeding I will have run up a bill of more than £1000 on each dog just to prove that they have good hips, e;bpws and eyes. Other breeds have more extensive testing and can cost many thousands of pounds before the breeder decides to have a litter. There are also the breeders who do not test and do not spend vast sums of money - are these the ones producing healthy dogs? They are certainley the ones who are not contributing to the so called cost of pedigree dogs. In not testing are they producing good puppies well ask the puppy farmers and they will tell you their dogs never have a days illness they have no vet bills ergo do they have healthy puppies? They dont have vet bills because the dogs die after being bred on every season. They dont have vet bills because they dont care about the puppies they breed.
Back to the programe. Yes it highlighted the need for change in many breeds and I whole heartedly agree with that. What it also did is make the good and responsible breeders think twice. Look at it this way each litter can bring in thousands of pounds but it doesnt come close the thousands of pounds the good breeders have spent getting their dogs to that standard. We will no doubt see some breeds dying out completley now that docking has ended (well done for stopping that nasty stuff) and hopefuly the breeds with congenital problems will be repaired or restored to their former state when they were fit for purpose but should this type of programe stop the responsible breeder where will you go for your puppies. The puppy farmers will have a field day.
Audrey August 31, 2008 at 8:50 p.m.
I would like to see the RSPCA going to summer show, I was at Gedling show Nottingham today 24th August, and was shocked, when a couple came up to me and asked if I wanted to buy a puppy she had in her jumber,it was a bull dog pup, I asked how old it as, she said 4 weeks, I told her it was to young to leave it's mother, and had not had it's injections, she replied so what, we have another 7 to sell, I asked how she would vet people who were to buy, I won't tell you what she said next, surely someone should be trying to protect little animals, it looked so sad, broke my heart.
lil_los@hotmail.co.uk August 31, 2008 at 8:17 p.m.
im completely repulsed that those poor dogs have to suffer all because greedy people want money, there are better more fulfilling ways to earn money such as .. GET A PROPER JOB, not one that requires breeding animals for money. grrrr what is the freeking point!
Mags53 August 29, 2008 at 10:19 p.m.
E Hipps - not sure that you should join in a debate when you haven't seen what is being debated, and not impressed that you didn't watch, if we don't look we don't learn - a bit like people who turn their back on images of starving children because it "upsets them" - as if the starving children aren't upset but they can't switch over!!
Chloe - I love and adore dogs, I belive that I like dogs better than I like most people, I'm one of those busy body people who step in and give my opinion if I see someone mistreating an animal - and yes, some dogs who are taken to shows don't enjoy it and because it's obvious that they don't enjoy it they don't win and so next time they get left at home whilst the ones who enjoy it are shown. Most people who show their dogs are showing their pets; and many people who show their dogs also work their dogs for the purpose for which they were bred and you only have to see a gundog enthusiastically doing what it was bred to do to know that these dogs are having fun. This programme showed very few of the many breeds and showed only unhealthy ones of those breeds, if they did a programme on humans and only showed those with impaired abilities or who were ill in hospital I'm sure that someone somewhere would say that humans should stop breeding!!
I suggest that if any of you who have voiced such strong and biased opinion, based in most part on a one-sided 1 hours worth of sensational television, are really interested in a proper debate based on the good old standard of both sides being given the chance to give their arguments, that you pop along to your newsagent this week and get a copy of Dog World and read the pieces written by the different breed clubs detailing what they have been doing to ensure the future health and well being of their chosen, and much loved breed - these breed club enthusiasts don't breed to make money but because they love their breed, they love having their chosen breed living with them with all of their breed traits, they are not the puppy traffikers/puppy farmers written about elsewhere on this site. For example, you might find it particulalry interesting to read about the work being done with Rhodesian Ridgbacks with the so called "spina bifida" related issues - go on, do the decent thing and find out all of the facts from both sides before forming such strong views. I did, because I wanted to find out if there was any truth in the reporting in the programme - and if the slant of the reporting was fair and right. I believe that the programme reporting was of the standard of the red-top papers that seek to form the minds of those who don't have a mind of their own.
So, before we go in for the genocide of pedigree breeds, aka the Nazis, lets get all of the facts from all sides, and from all breeds not such a small minority, and lets see if they are indeed unhappy, unhealthy mutants.
E Hipps August 29, 2008 at 9:31 a.m.
I didn't watch the program because i thought it was really horrible and it would upset me but i think what it said on it was horrible and i think that the government should rethink its laws etc. so that these awful things don't happen.
janey August 28, 2008 at 9:59 p.m.
I think that because the Kennel Club is meant to be a responsible body - not a money making machine that does not care about animals, how the bulldog gets his massive chest the eyes etc - due to bad breeding, inter breeding thus causing animal suffering, stress anxiety and many operations to correct the "idea of perfect" - animals need to be born,a nd allow to develop not be moulded before even concieved due to "standards" - I shall write to my MP, and I shall continue to support and voice my opinions for the good of animals.
bh August 28, 2008 at 6:22 p.m.
I have written to my MP , the Queen and the kennel club . Here is a link to a petition that seeks to lobby the government for the UK to sign and ratify the European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals. which other european countries have signed.
'although your experiences of pedigree dog showing may not be horrific you can't discard the fact that many many dogs being showed are in fact unhealthy and unhappy.'
Can you explain to me how exactly do you know this? If I told you the majority of show dogs have to have 2 tails would you believe that at face value as well?
Horrific is not a word I would ever associate with showing by the way.
'How can other pedigree dogs be used for jobs such as guiding the blind when their life spans are reduced due to inbreeding and disease, and it is in fact them that need the help?'
As the majority of dogs trained as Guide Dogs are bred by the GDA themselves and are registered Pedigrees does this make them bad breeders. These dogs work in active service until the age of 7 when they are retired and you only have to read the GDA's magazine with it's obituaries of the passing of these wonderful dogs, most well into their teens, from old age to see how their so called inbreeding has reduced their life span. Not
I am not condoning bad breeders but it is all too easy to take these 'opinion's' at face value without looking in to what is being said. All that these negative comments tell me is I might as well breed any old dog to my bitch and sell the crossbreeds off without bothering about health checks costing hundreds yes thats right hundreds of pounds which I have had done in the past.
The KC and other such organisations have not had their heads in the sand, they have been working hard to clear these problems up as they appear. For instance PRA commonly known as 'night blindness' has been virtually eradicated in the Irish Setter, if you buy a pedigree Irish with legitimate papers from the Kennel Club then you know your dog will never suffer from that health problem - without papers you've just spun the barrel in a game of Russian Roulette.
Sue August 27, 2008 at 4:22 p.m.
I believe there are genuine responsible breeders out there and there are healthy pedigree dogs, who may in fact constitute the majority, but as with lots of things, it is the minority who give the majority a bad name. I believe that backstreet breeders are on the increase. If you have a pedigree bitch and you live on income support, how easy is it to persuade one of your mates with a similar dog to loan his dog for stud purposes and then sit back and let nature take its course while you count the profits? As the credit crunch bites, the problem will get worse, and these people don't care about inbreeding as long as they get their money. There will always be a market because these people can undercut the bona fide breeders. Our town is full of Staffies! Sadly, so are our local animal shelters. I didn't see the programme on TV which prompted this debate, but of course it will have been sensationalised, because that is how the media get their viewing figures. It has successfully highlighted an issue which exists, but I think it is a bit simplistic to lay all the blame at any one door. I don't agree with breed standards if achieving them places the welfare of the animal second. I think irresponsible breeders who gamble with the animals' health to win shows are a part of the problem, as are puppy farms and backstreet breeders for whom it is all purely about the money. I can accept that healthy dogs enjoy shows, just like they enjoy agility or any other activity which stimulates them. I see nothing wrong with dog shows, as long as the primary focus is on health and the results accurately reflect that. Unfortunately, in some cases, this is not what happens, and I am glad tht the programme highlighted it and sparked this debate. More regulation of bona fide breeders will not prevent the backstreet breeders and puppy farms from operating. For me, these people are at the root of the problem, and I think it should be tackled from the bottom up. Unfortunately, the answer of quite how that could be successfully achieved is not so easy.
Chloe August 27, 2008 at 3:53 p.m.
Carol NW and Mags 53, your thoughts are very interesting. However, although your experiences of pedigree dog showing may not be horrific you can't discard the fact that many many dogs being showed are in fact unhealthy and unhappy. How can other pedigree dogs be used for jobs such as guiding the blind when their life spans are reduced due to inbreeding and disease, and it is in fact them that need the help? Everyone knows that dogs are being mistreated on a daily basis, the public should be well aware of this what with the great efforts of the RSPCA and other charities. But not everyone is aware that it is also the pedigree dogs that are being looked after unfairly and treated with lack of care. The programme did a brilliant job in making us aware of that so that something can be done, it doesn't forget the fact that other dogs need help as well but allows our focus to be drawn to other animals in pain and suffering. Well, that's what I feel and I know that I knew little of the suffering of pedigree dogs before the show and far from making my forget the suffering of crossbreeds at the hands of abusive owners it has inspired me to make a difference about how other dogs, the pedigree dogs are being treated. Granted its not all the pedigree dogs that suffer cruelty, but if you heard of any dog, any dog at all, be crossbreed or pedigree, would you not want to help them by making the public aware of what has been, and is still going on?
Carol NW August 27, 2008 at 10:50 a.m.
The reaction on this list alone clearly shows why such programmes as the one being discussed are biased and sensationalism. Would the scandal have been half as interesting if it had been show as ‘some pedigree dogs have health problems but dog breeders, the Kennel Club and other organisations such as the BVA, Optigen and the Animal Health Trust are working together to try and improve the health and well being of dogs and educate the buyers and owners of these dogs as to what health checks should be carried out’?
Saying that all pedigree dogs at Crufts are unhealthy mutants is on a par with say that all crossbreed dogs are fit and healthy and have wonderful temperaments – without fully testing every single dog it cannot be proven.
Speaking from experience I took on a crossbreed dog from the RSPCA many years ago, did I have a home check? NO. Did I have a lot of forms to fill in? NO just the one with my name and address and signature. Did I have a Home Visit? NO. Did I have a follow up phone call to check on the dog? NO. Was the dog fit and healthy? NO. Did the dog have any serious hereditary health issues? YES. Would I go to the RSPCA for a dog again? NEVER.
Perhaps another programme could be shown on TV exposing the cruel practises of the non-pedigree dog owners and breeders. There would need to be very little research to find dogs and bitches roaming the streets uncared for, you only have to run through some archive clips of the Animal Hospital programmes for that. It would be easy to film dogs being dragged around on days out in high temperatures running serious risk of hyperthermia and dehydration, how would you like to be out in the sun in a fur coat? The obvious neglect of non-Pedigrees could easily be shown, matted coats, dirty ears, long nails, overweight due to incorrect diet and lack of exercise. All crossbreed litters are from indiscriminate pairings which could be closely related for many generations – it cannot be proved otherwise. If you only spend a few pounds on a puppy from the local paper and it turns out to grow big and boisterous not to worry it can always be dumped on the local rescue and another one bought.
I can hear many voices shouting ‘That’s not me, I don’t treat my dog like that’ well now you know how the Pedigree owners are feeling. Maybe you should take the log out of your own eye first.
Mags53 August 27, 2008 at 9:26 a.m.
The RSPCA can help pedigree dogs by not participating in programmes that are so biased that they alienate breeders who are responsible, and who breed dogs that are fit and healthy and that still do the work for which they were originally bred. Owners and breeders of pedigree dogs are also appalled at the health issues with some breeds and the indiscriminate culling of healthy puppies by anyone (and be assured many crossbreed litters, i.e. in the most part accidental matings, are culled). Dog shows are not "beauty" shows, they are conformation and movement shows; places where people with a common interest gather to look at one another's dogs to try to find the best and fittest for the parents of their next puppy. Don't tar us all with the same brush, help us to change the minds of the breeders and judges who think exaggeration and flash-and-dash are good, and that moderate and fit-for-purpose are secondary. Pedigree dogs are ones that, because they have been bred for a specific purpose with traits and temperament that can be relied upon, play a useful role in the lives of many, such as the blind, the police, search-and-rescue teams, etc. I've had crossbreeds and pedigree dogs for many, many years and you need to be aware that the one that had the most health issues was a crossbreed. In fact, I have one of my latest "mutants with terrible health" sitting with me now, he is 9 years old and has not required ANY veterinary help in his whole life. The KC have made many breed clubs change their breed standards over the last few years, they are trying to get changes made without pushing the breeders away as then their influence will be gone. I hope that in all of the furore that has been caused by such a biased programme that someone remembers to investigate if the allegation about the Spaniel stud dog is true, and that any work being done by the KC and breed clubs to make those who knowingly breed from unhealthy dogs accountable has not been destroyed. And, let us not forget, there are so many crossbreed dogs in rescue centres because of the pet owners who allow their dogs to breed indiscriminately; have a go at them but don't ask me to ever have another dog whose parentage (and therefore the unknown health issues) is unknown and unproven as that can be heartbreaking as well. And, yes, I do show my dogs SO LONG AS THEY ENJOY IT, I have 3 boys and 2 are shown and one just goes to the show for the day out (he loves his days out) - I can assure you that they love it and as with all animals, if they don't enjoy it they won't do it; if they're forced to do it eventually they stop being taken as they just refuse to do what is asked of them. So please, RSPCA, do not make sweeping statements that are not factual, saying that ALL pedigree dogs are unhealthy mutants is like saying that all working class children have rickets.
seaflowers August 25, 2008 at 6 p.m.
The Kennel Club needs to be more accountable. A vets consortium may be a useful moderating panel for them!
k9kathy August 25, 2008 at 5:27 p.m.
Just a quick comment. I thought the lady who has her healthy ridgeback pups put to sleep because they dont have a deformed spine showed exactly the same cold hearted mentality that fox hunters show when they state that their "sport" is not cruel !! Money money money....thats what its all about.
sam150150 August 25, 2008 at 4:20 p.m.
Vikki....You say " Ask breed club secretaries for a good breeder." Featured in the programme was a breeder showing her Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, which although is known to the whole of the breed club to have been diagnosed with the excruciatingly painful disease 'syringomyelia' went on to win best in show, and since being diagnosed has also gone on to sire tens of litters. Good breeder? I think not! The woman should be prosecuted, for knowingly inflicting untold pain on these poor animals, not to mention the thousands of pounds worth of vet fees the unsuspecting new owners of these puppies will incur. Maybe the government should insist that breeders should compensate the owners for vet bills etc if they have bred dogs they know to carry these diseases. It's about time these self righteous hypocrites were brought to book.
greebo2007 August 25, 2008 at 3:50 p.m.
Its not just dogs but pedigree cats as well that can suffer, I always wanted a siamese cat, I now have a apple headed siamese cat that was rescued and if ever there was an example of too much over and inbreeding he is it, he is ugly with deformed tail, skinny legs and feet and the poor thing cannot retract his claws properly. I love him to bits but his appearance is dreadful. He has suffered infections in his feet and legs cos of the deformities and cannot walk properly and his eyes run constantly. ps he is happy now and spends loads of time on my bed. So I think pedigree breeding needs to be addressed for all types of domestic animals.
ailim August 24, 2008 at 10:20 p.m.
In answer to the above question, an urgent review of breed standards for every breed of dog needs to be started to try to get back to a normal healthy state. A vets certificate should be produced for every dog that enters for the show ring and inbreeding should be stopped completely. I don't know how long all this would take and if it would be in time to save some breeds from extinction. Its time to show how we really love our dogs. people interested in starting a petition should go to Petitions.number10.gov.uk This will get a message to a wider audience. Petitions will be open again on September 1st when parliament reconvenes.
Gillski August 24, 2008 at 5:02 p.m.
I didn't see the program but have heard all about it. It is well known that pedigree dogs are largly inbred, that is why a certain breed tend to suffer from a certain problem. We as dog owners must start to take some responsibility - if people did not rush out to buy a lab puppy or a westie puppy there would be less of a market for the people who are doing this. If you are considering buying a dog why not visit the animal resuce centres, there are so many loving, well rounded good dogs that are not pedigree that need homes but people are too snobby when it comes to buying them. Pedigree puppies fetch a ridiculous price where a rescue dog is less than £100 - it is no wonder this is happening. My rescue dog happens to be a pedigree (I think) but I did not know this at the time. I worry terribly that he may suffer because of what he is and will do for the rest of his life. The only way this will stop is if we as owners stop it!
xx..canine luver..xx August 24, 2008 at 2:30 p.m.
When I watched that program the other night I didn't even realise how bad it was!!! It just made me wonder why we would let it get this bad and that people would take it that far!!! I went to crufts last year but I wasn't aware of all the problems and this one in particular!! I've been doing some research and trying to find old pictures of dogs to see how this disguisting method has changed these amazing creatures... for the worse!!!! If anyone knows any sites that have old pictures of dogs, I would love to know. Then I can send it to everyone I know to show them the damage that these sick people have caused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shanouck August 23, 2008 at 3:05 p.m.
I will never watch cruffs again...its just alot of fraudsters! showing animals - i thought the whole idea with winning cruffs was that the breeder had the best and healthiest dog in the show!! This is not the case there deformed,Some with severe deformities... My cross breed is far healthier as i am sure many other cross breeds are that some of you own"..They should be the ones in the show - NOT these FRAUDS!! As for putting healthy puppys down because they have not got a ridge on there back; just makes me flipping SICK!! There are alot of people who can not afford a puppy or who can afford only to pay very little....so why arnt these puppys being offored free to loving homes instead?? This woman who breeds ridgebacks that was on the show and who does put puppys down (and sees that there is NO harm in it? and its the right thing to do? needs to be on the end of my mouth..What are you on Lady? All these breeders care about is WINNING the cup they do not care about the dog in general and how healthy the puppys are that are breed
Comments
Mags53 November 14, 2008 at 8:52 p.m.
By the way, let's just remember that the station who broadcast this bias is the same one that broadcast the Russel Brand/Jonathan Ross programme that has caused so much trouble. It is basically flawed. The RSPCA is the same organisation that happily takes money raised from pedigree dog shows but then stabs them in the back - that claims to have the interests of all animals at heart but is moving away from helping pedigree dogs due to a knee jerk reaction to a very biased programme.
Mags53 November 14, 2008 at 8:48 p.m.
I have had pedigree dogs now for 34 years and as yet have never had one with an hereditory problem. I have had one with a retained testicle due to trauma (common in humans who aren't interbred) and one with a wheat intolerance (same as me and I'm not interbred). Except for accidents they have NEVER needed veterinay attention for any condition (maybe a few more visits when they're over 10 years old). They have GOOD pedigrees, are shown (if they like it - most do) and I qualify them for Crufts. Sooooooooooooo NOT ALL PEDIGREE DOGS HAVE PROBLEMS. I have three with me now and they are all fine.
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:34 p.m.
K9Love most of the breed standards do not need re writing in any way (the last major review was under the direction of a former President of the British Veterinary Association). The vast majority of people who breed dogs do not show them and pay little or no attention to the standards, so changing them would have no effect. Your description of breed standard dogs I also find as offensive as you have found criticism of working dogs saying that you think they cannot walk properly have you ever been to a major show and seen the thousands of happy health fit animals there?
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:33 p.m.
The accusation you have made if unfounded is as bad as the one you took offense over. I am sorry your dog has an allergy problem but these can be brought on by so many things and have very little if anything to with their genetic background but often by their environment, food or as the result of a previous condition. If they appear to have problems with their back legs I assume you have had it hip scored or his patella’s assed by your vet and as a dog handler I assume you must be aware of all the KC/BVA health checks . The fact that you went to buy a pedigree dog I assumed that YOU had checked out the breeder in advance (and they your suitability to be a dog owner too) you asked and seen proof of hip and eye status of the parents and you had seen the pedigree so you could decide you thought in your view it was acceptable, after all of this you could of done prior to even seeing a
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:33 p.m.
puppy let alone choosing one (such options you would of not had when buying a mongrel), if you did like what you had been shown you SHOULD not of bought the dog, The KC would and do provide all potential owners advice on what they should look for and ask when looking for a new puppy. As for having dog licenses like in the past the good dog owner would buy them and a bad one would not, so not solving any problem. As for vets putting down healthy dog none would do so for purely cosmetic reasons, however if you see my previous posting the RSPCA does not have a good record in that area.
K9LOVE November 14, 2008 at 10:15 a.m.
Hi, I work with Dogs Day in Day out as a dog handler, i have a Pedigree Labrador who i get a vets bill on average once a month for due to Allergies, and he appears tired on his back legs on occassions, his pedigree is very interbreed and i fear i may not hold on to him as long as i would hope. i have a "Mutt" cross breed Spaniel, for search work, he only goes to the vets for a Vac once a year, i love all my dogs, but in the long run i would like a dog to be healthy, i dont care what they look like. The Kennel club needs to review every breed and re-write the breed standards, also stop interbreeding. mom and dad should have diffrent pedigree lines from 4 generations, i also found it, in very bad taste that working dogs where told they where not the correct standard, my working german shepherd can do everything and can walk, where breed standard dogs can hardly walk. I also feel that the kennel club should speak to people breeding working strains of dogs as the dogs are healthy, workable and people friendly. And Vets should be Finned if found to be putting Dogs to sleep, just because of there looks. i'm also a great believer in bringing back dog licences, maybe if someone sensible looked at everything from the dogs point and not us mere humans they would see, dogs came to be mans best friend,and we are killing them slowly, what friends are we to them.
kmarsh November 14, 2008 at 3:50 a.m.
i think that is is just plain wrong what they do to the porr animals they neva did any thing 2 u. so just leave them alone please so i can sleep easier at nite and i dont have 2 worry how those dogs r getting treated. so i say please 4 every 1's pice of mind dont hurt tha little animals. please. cause i have had 2 tell some 1 about some animal abuse
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:34 a.m.
Ok lets get some balance on this subject. The producer of the programme has now publicly admitted that she wanted to shock people and did not think that the Kennel Club or those associated with it should be able to be given a voice as to what major steps and work have already been achieved in the world of canine health via it many schemes and practices and policies. There is now acknowledgement that most of the information given was either misleading, vastly inflated or downright lies. She said it was not her job to ensure that the programme was balanced in any way or should show the WHOLE picture in the world of pedigree dogs but just what SHE wanted to show.
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:32 a.m.
Yes in the past and I mean over 40 years ago it was custom for some breeders to cull puppies be it because they had a large litter and the bitch would have trouble rearing them all (this normally advised by a vet) or it was because the puppies may have a fault (and not a aesthetic one) but if in some breed all white animals would be born deaf many breeders would have such puppies humanely destroyed. However this type of practice has all but been stopped in the last 30 years and to be honest I have not heard of anyone who has done so for many many years, the producers of the programme picked on two selected breeds and then tried to bend the truth to make it look like the Kennel Club condoned such policy which it has and does not! People forget that most show dogs are first and foremost people well cared for and beloved pets sharing their owners lives and homes, they have to be of good temperament (after all how many dogs would take to having complete stranger inspect every part of their body up to 60 or more times a year) and be surrounded by thousands of other dogs.
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:32 a.m.
Most show dogs spend a very small percentage of their lives at shows, and if they did not enjoy the experience they would not and could not be successfully shown by their owners.Breed standard are only a guide/blue print for an ideal and only a very small will be a perfect fit to that (and only in some judges eye) and all standards have a wide variance within them so to think that a dog is discarded because it does not meet a standard 100% is a stupid statement to make!! You must also remember that many of the standards in existence are based on the Country of origin or the FCI and not just by the Kennel Club,
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:31 a.m.
yet the producers did not make any comment as to how other breeds look around the rest of the world. The type of GSD shown in the programme is the one favoured in other parts of Europe and again no reference to this was made. #1Doggy Lover the person you state was the KC Manager is in fact its Chairman and is a very knowledgeable and caring man (his family have had dogs at the highest of lever for many generation) the tone of questioning he faced on the practice of Line Breeding and not In-breeding was both insulting and calculated. Although to humans the practice of mating a bitch to its grandsire would seem quite unacceptable (and rightly so)
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:30 a.m.
in NATURE this in fact a common occurrence and for many pack and herd animals, or to put it in another way if an area has many stray dogs it will be the strongest and normally most aggressive dog that will mate with all the bitches in an area as he is the dominant, he will mate them regardless of what relationship he is to them be it father, grandfather or even brother, and many mongrels and cross breeds would be the result of such matings. Line mating to a common ancestor (four or more generations back) can be used to fix type in a breed , and yes it may bring out a genetic fault but it is as likely to prevent a gene being inherited and eradicate a genetic disorder and the actual
sirius November 14, 2008 at 1:30 a.m.
Eddlol you could not be more wrong the Kennel Club do not and never have had such a rule.........what make you think they have?
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:54 a.m.
According to the annual report in 2007 the RSPCA rehomed/released (released means gave back to when dog was lost) 15,787 dogs yet it Humane euthanasia(ie destroyed)7,506 dogs more than HALF the dogs it rehomed!!! In fact in 2007 the RSPCA euthanized 66,489 animals (granted it less than the 72,042 they destroyed in 2006!!).
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:54 a.m.
Their income in for 2007 was £114,100,000, it has £83.2 million in fixed assets, it has £123.5 million in investments so over £206 million pounds in assets and investments alone. Yet it spent £8,189,000 on campaigns and media work £1,349,000 on its Governance costs, and it it paid just 18 of its employees a total of £1.2 Million pounds in one year. So you asked can my source be trusted?
sirius November 14, 2008 at 12:53 a.m.
Well its all there in the RSPCA Annual review for 2007 – Trustees and Financial report (on the RSPCA web site). If the people at Passionate Productions really cared about animals perhaps they should of investigated the people who pay the that former TV presenter as their CHIEF vet!! And ask why an organisation who had access to over £320 million pounds in one year still destroys over 7,500 dogs...now that is a dogs story that should be exposed
Genie November 13, 2008 at 3:03 p.m.
Dogs are not trophies!!
They should be able to live normal lives not have their future depnd on what standards they reach.
Culling dogs because they not breeding material is just disgusting. what right do we have to determine their future like that?!
Dogs that don't meet standards should be handed over and re-homed so that they can be loved and have a normal life not killed.
It's not their fault so why should they be punished for it?
I'm ashamed to be the same species as anyone who thinks that this is acceptable...
#1 Doggy Lover November 11, 2008 at 6:26 p.m.
when people cull pups just bcause they dont meet "breed standerds" its just Cruelty!!!
and also on the tv programme pedigree dogs exposed the kennel club manager admitted mating grandparents and grandchildren thats just wrong!!!
eddlol November 11, 2008 at 8:13 a.m.
its mean to kill ridge back pups just because they dont have a ridge. those pups have NOT got a desies and the kennel club say its a rule.
Mags53 October 26, 2008 at 9:59 p.m.
mebecki - dogs don't want the same life as a human, they want the same life as a dog. They want freedom to express natural behaviour, to have the chance to run and sniff, and to eat decent food; they want the kindness and loyalty of their owner, whom they will follow to the end of the earth.
niblats - the KC represent pedigree dogs and crossbreed dogs, and not all pedigree dogs are disasters; hardly any of them are - before you make statements like that find out what percentage have problems then compare that with the percentage of humans and other species that are "disasters".
I think that people are mistaking pedigree dogs as all having been bred on puppy farms and, therefore, having behavioural and health issues - they don't have.
sirius October 25, 2008 at 11:08 p.m.
Niblats the primary objective of the Kennel Club is 'to promote in every way, the general improvement of dogs'. This includes its work with pedigree, cross breeds and companion animal. So what makes you think they are NOT working for the benefit of ALL dogs............ can you names one organisation that raise so much money for canine causes each year (through its charitable and its educational trusts, well over £3,000,000 donated todate), defends the rights of ALL dog owners(campaigning against the use of electric shock collars, dangerous dogs, puppy farming, chemicals testing on dogs, dog and cat fur, dog control orders and access at local and national levels of goverment) the school education schemes (SAS), the YKC, the good citizen training scheme, all the health checks schemes with the BVA,Discover Dogs, Scrufts, Working Trials and the setting up and running of the Petlog Scheme, and this is just a very small amount of work they do each year.......so Niblats would you say all this work has been a disaster??
niblats October 25, 2008 at 9:29 p.m.
quite frankly, I think the kennel club should stop and think about whether they are representing pedigree dogs or pedigree disasters.
mebecki October 17, 2008 at 3:46 p.m.
I think that pedigree dogs should get the same life style as if the dog was a human. They shoulld get feed and have a proper home.
sirius October 16, 2008 at 9:20 p.m.
Well Dawnie you put in your blog the following “My puppy is 25 weeks old and is very sick, i have had numerous visits to the vet, with her being treated for a severe case of kennel cough and masticatory myositis and she has now developed problems in her front legs. Inbreeding is causing these animals great distress and i would like to see these breeders and the kennel club brought to task” both the conditions you say your dog has are common to all dogs regardless of what or how they may be bred, neither are the caused of a genetic inheritance. Yet you go onto blame breeders and the Kennel Club for inbreeding, so if they are not linked why blame them?!? Resistance to infectious disease is not just about genetics, it also is to do with nutrition, environment, previous infections/illnesses . Masticatory myositis can affect many breeds/and non breeds of dogs as it would appear not to be inherited, yet the mode of inheritance or the frequency in dogs is still being investigated by breeders working WITH the veterinary practitioners, good breeder do care and strive to improve the health and welfare of their dogs. You say about needing stricter guidelines on breeding healthier dogs the following is what the KC recommends “Before breeding from a dog or bitch, the Kennel Club advises breeders to investigate whether there are any possible inherited conditions that may affect the breed. Breeders can do this by discussing the matter with the breeder of their dog, the relevant breed club or clubs, the Kennel Club Health & Information Department or, possibly, their veterinary surgeon. There are several health schemes currently in operation to assist in the prevention or control of some diseases (including DNA tests), and where they exist, the Kennel Club strongly recommends that both sire and dam are tested” The following is from the British Veterinary Association/Kennel Club report for 2007 “Joint Veterinary Screening Schemes with the B VA, The three schemes (KC/BVA Hip and Elbow Schemes and the KC/BVA/ISDS Eye Scheme) have continued to see increased submission rates. Approximately 11,500 certificates were processed by the BVA for the Hip Scheme, 1,400 for the Elbow Scheme and 18,000 for the Eye Scheme. The Kennel Club has made a commitment to use this health screening data to provide more informed feedback on the impact and progress of the schemes to breeders, with the intent of encouraging greater use. To this end, 5-year rolling mean hip scores for all of those breeds where more than 100 dogs have been scored are now being calculated. In almost all cases, this mean is falling year-on-year, indicating that hip scoring is having the desired effect, namely reducing the average hip score in future generations.” So in 2007 alone in just three of the schemes almost 32,000 examinations took place and these schemes have been running for many many years now, the work put in by the BVA,KC and breeders show THEY CARE and HAVE been taking action.
Dawnie October 16, 2008 at 7:38 p.m.
i never once said that kennel cough is caused by inbreeding i know it's a virus, however the other health issues my dog has, has just made me think that in general these dogs would be healthier and have a fightng chance to overcome some of the more commom ailments if stricter guidelines on breeding were put place.
sirius October 16, 2008 at 4:49 p.m.
Well Whippet let’s check out some of YOUR claims on here on the 27 Sept you criticized Mags 53 by saying "The reason that dogs trusts and animal welfare society's are so full of un-homed dogs is because people of your ideology have set standards of how a particular animal should look” Well there are over 850 Breed Rescue representative covering ALL the registered breeds(I can send you a list if you like), covering all over the country funded entirely by Breed clubs and individuals within breeds. The homes that any rescue dog is placed in are vetted to high standards, and the care of the dog is put above all other concerns, RSPCA REFUSE to work with breed clubs (unlike Battersea). Pedigree dog owners and breeder take great responsibility for their own breeds. If you look at the vast majority of dogs in rescue centres they are cross breed or mongrels, so how do you support you claim that the set standards of how a dog should look is the reason for these homes being full of un-homed dogs?!?!?!
sirius October 16, 2008 at 2:27 p.m.
Well Whippet you think I am boasting do you?? Why is that?? All I have written is things that I can back up with evidence by recognised published bodies and also after a lifetime in dogs (both pedigree and non pedigree) with over 35 years of experience in breeding and showing dog, working on Breed Club Committees, raising funds for welfare homes, dealing with breed rescue, as a Trustee of a canine welfare charity. My dogs first and foremost are my pets and companions. The breeds I have like ALL DOGS (not just pedigree) have some health conditions and I have worked over the years to reduce these, like all in my breed have, people who have devoted much of their life to a breed see themselves as just custodians and strive to keep that breed healthy and happy and protected. I am sure Mags 53 can stand up for their self, but you say that my comments are ill informed, subjective and disrespectful and without substantiation, please tell me just which ones have been and (as you say they are wrong tell me what proof you have?) I have only replied to comments posted by others. Tell me how many breed standards have you read and disagreed with there are approx 210 of them, just how many of them do you say are wrong? you say that breeds need to have their gene pools widen, are you not aware of the many hundreds of dogs imported from across the world each year to here to do that? The numbers of puppies from AI produced from dogs abroad (supported by the KC) each year, or the dogs that the KC have put on its register to allow gene pools to be extended (the Working Bloodhounds last year, the allowance of boxers to be crossed with Corgi to have a natural shorten tail) the practice you say takes place of inbreeding has for the past 30+ years rarely taken place with the exception of Puppies farmers who cannot be bother to, widen their gene pools (they are also unlike to register any dog with the KC but still will want to call them pedigrees). On 27/9 you said “Breed standards = profit. Either financial gain to a breeder or a farmer” so what of the people who now advertise cross breeds in the paper for £300, are they doing it for the love of dogs or money? You said that animals “should evolve by evolutionary laws” the vast majority of breeds have done so be that the climate or environmental areas they have come from, can the same be now said of the “Designer Breeds” like Cockerpoos or Labradoodles??? You said from a professional point of view that I need to do more research, please what is your professional standing and how much ACTUAL scientific and practical research have you done? You like to brand others with shame and labeling them as not being animal lovers.................. well be open and listen to others people knoweldge, experience and views, learn before you decide to shame others quite so quickly.
Mags53 October 16, 2008 at 12:25 p.m.
I post to these blogs from both a professional and personal viewpoint, with many years experience of owning and breeding animals. I view all subjects objectively not subjectively and do not have pre-conceived views on topics, I always look at the facts from all sides before forming an opinion - and am always willing to change my opinion if new facts prove that I am wrong; I accept that people are entitled to their own opinion and no one opinion is always right or wrong. I have never said here that all pedigree dogs or other types of pedigree animal are ALL free of devastating health problems BUT refute absolutely the premise that ALL pedigree dogs, etc. are genetically compromised and suffer lives of pain and ill health - because I have owned them for years and know that they are not. The damage done through this programme is that the RSPCA have alienated people who would have helped with improving things by stating, categorically, that ALL pedigree dogs are genetic mutants (and that term has a very specific meaning in genetic terms) and live a life of pain. Owners and breeders of pedigree dogs have worked for years to raise funds for the RSPCA and the RSPCA themselves have been given thousands of pounds by the Kennel Club for research projects raised by donations from the dog showing, working and competing world. It saddens me when extremists with a biased and sweeping view of subjects think that they are right in everything they say and take people who have a little knowledge with them. I wonder how many people who are posting here are aware of the actions taken by the KC since this programme? Actions that were already in the pipeline for the benefit of some of the breeds badly affected by health issues - and yes there are some where I think that the people who breed them should be horse-whipped - but as I've said before, these breeds are very much in the minority.
whippet October 15, 2008 at 8:18 p.m.
Can I just say from a professional view point, regarding the comments of Sirius and mags53, that you really do need to do some more research before boasting such comments to this blog. Your comments are as ill informed as they are subjective. They are also disrespectful and without substantiation, and therefore are not worthy of reply. Call yourself s animal lovers...you are the very people we are campaigning against.
Mags53 October 14, 2008 at 7:47 p.m.
I've just noticed that one or two comments here seem to indicate that people show their dogs at shows for financial gain. I'd just like to point out that at most shows all that you win is a piece of card saying what place you were awarded. The Crufts Best in Show winner receives the sum of £100 for beating several thousand other dogs - so we don't do it to win money - it costs you money.
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:39 p.m.
Jelly cat yes it was a long comment but it is a very big subject of which many people only pick on one point and not the whole picture.
Megank, well if you want to blame the anyone for how Greyhounds are the Kennel Club is the last place, as they are a vulnerable breed ie there is less than three hundred dogs registered with them each year (in truth only about 10 litters are registered) the shape of the modern greyhound is all to do with racing dog, of which the Kennel Club HAVE NEVER had any say/control. If you a programme wants to expose THE biggest exploitation of dogs it should be the greyhound industry which has very little regulation or control and thousands of dogs are discarded by each year , after all how many other breeds have to have National Rescue trust for them? As breed Pugs and Bulldogs are things I do not find attractive (but many do thats why they are popular pets) however again many believe what they are shown on TV when just ONE old photo or ONE copy of a painting is SELECTED/USED to what the PRODUCERS of a programme say a breed SHOULD look like. Look at a number or old books and paintings and you will see there were many many different TYPEs within each breed as there still are today!!! (a little anatomy point for you a pig has a snout, a dog has a muzzle), Bulldogs and Pugs ears have stayed the same over 100 years and are no different now as they were then!?! So not sure why you say they are smaller?!?
megank October 12, 2008 at 9:41 a.m.
did you know, pugs, bulldogs, and basset hounds werent always like they are now!! they had long legs, little ears and long snouts. But because of imperfect breeding, they had become small , squatty, wrinkled nosed dogs that many think are ugly.
Greyhounds are becoming vunerable to this as people are force breeding them to become better athletes, but instead what they'll get is a bad backed dog with limp legs that has to be put down.
Please help put a stop to this and help protect our beautiful dog breeds!!!
Jelly Cat Jen October 12, 2008 at 9:21 a.m.
This was WaaaaaaaaaaaaaaY to looooooooooooooong
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:22 a.m.
Sorry manage to put my blog the wrong way round!!! well I am not a techie when it comes to PC, but please look at what I have said and I willbe happy to discuss or defend any point I have put and listen to what you think.
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:17 a.m.
PART 3 NOtned yes the KC does have it head quarters in London but so does the RSPCA (I wonder if saying that will stop this blog?) but every year all the profits it makes from Crufts and any from the registration system goes back into canine Welfare via its charitable trust (the RSPCA have just had £45,000 from it) it also provides education support for schools and children on how to handle care and behave around dogs, it produces a Rescue Directory each year that lists the thousands of people who work for breed rescues and general canine charities and send it free to all police stations and vets all over the country and to anyone who requests a copy . KT & Dilian well you might disagree with Crufts but have you ever been to it (or the other 28 general championship shows held each year?) what people forget is all the dogs shown are living with people and are in the vast majority of cases people much loved pets. In fact most show dogs are far better tempered as they need to be physically examined by the judge (in some cases up to 5 judges in one day) and be in a ring with many many others dogs. The KC will in fact ban any dog who has been proved to have bitten a person or another dogs at a show, and will not allow any progeny they may be produced to be registered (there for stopping them from being shown or bred from) are any mongrels tested in this way? Sorry if this has upset many people but this is just the tip of the iceberg as to the misinformation by this programme and many comments post by people who have not looked at the full picture. Just to quantify myself I have been involved in dogs for over 40 years and am a third generation of a family who have shown, bred and loved their dogs, I work for a local canine society, I judge at Championship level shows (and temperament and soundness is key above anything for me!!!) and I am a trustee of a canine charity who deals with rescue and street dogs . I will be the first to admit that there are many bad practices in pedigree dogs but this programme was unbalance , bias, inaccurate, and in some cases has now made the plight of all dogs far worse, to quantify I now see people purposely breeding mongrel litters with NO health checks, no guarantee to take back the dog (as all responsible breeders do) but charge instead £ 400, which just goes into the pocket and the poor dogs I suspect into rescue centre in a years time!!
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:17 a.m.
PART 2 The KC and the many vets schools have been working (and funding)not just in this country but all over the world to find new DNA test to reduce and eliminate. This program set out to sensationalise and showed just how poor it was researched and biased it was. The claim that £10M is spent each week on dogs at vets, did they say on what?? This would include vaccinations, check ups, caring after accidents, infections and diseases , these thing affect ALL dogs. The claim the Members of the Kennel Club were followers of HItlers was deeply offending!!! Eugenics is not a Evil plot to produce a PURE BLOOD race, it is the same thing practice by horse breeders or plant growers or anyone who looks to preserve a species/breed, the main proponent of this is Mother Nature herself, after a Lion is cat and so is a Tiger but they do not mate together do they!!! And as for in breeding in a wolf pack only the dominate female allowed to breed, and then when she is usurped normally by her daughter then only she will breed, well this means that genetic material of the pack will get reduced far more than any one who may line breed. As for the sad shot in the programme of the Boxer who fitted, the produces failed (they say it was an error) to mention that it does so only once a month and not as it was portrayed in the programme a several times a day, but I agree once a moth is too much. However did the mention all the work done by breed clubs and the Kennel club on this matter...No of course they didn’t, the same as the vet who was interviewed for an hour but only a few seconds of film was used and out of context as it did not match the message the producers wanted to give!!! In reply to Jess who rightly say many cross breeds and mongeral dogs need home, but can she tell me how many of these are checked for hip eye, patella, temperament problems?? No because people who breed them cant be bothered!!! And yes they do suffer with these problems. .
sirius October 12, 2008 at 12:16 a.m.
Having read through the comments on this site I find it hard to understand how many people manage to get some simple things , the person who thinks their dog has Kennel Cough as it is inbred!!! ITS A VIRUS ANY DOG CAN CATCH IT!!!. (well the produce of the programme think that her dog got cancer as it was inbred, so does that mean all people who have cancer are inbred!!, of course not emotions and sense do not always work together) Jean Levit not about one of her poor dogs that suffer with epilepsy it would of appeared to have bought from a Kennel that sell on dogs such places are dealers/puppy farmers and not reputable breeders who do such health check (did you have the status of the pups parents hips and eyes given to you?) if you had researched yourself with the help of the Kennel Club or Breed clubs you could of gone to a good breeder, yet you say you don’t register dogs at the KC as you say it is cruel and so is Crufts , yet they are the one who have and are doing the work and test you have chosen not to take advantage of?!? As for Penny who call for a country wide database of dogs who have failed test, well this is run by the Kennel club who publish all passes and fails of dogs in the KC/BVA test in the Breed Record Supplements 4 times a year (again the programme failed to mention any of this!!) As for Chloe who praises Mark Evans whos says dogs shows are cruel for dogs, yet how many have visited? (I doubt ever been to a dog show,?) If he has how many in the past year? Five years? 20 years? And how many of the dog there did he examine ? surely he must have his own personal evidence to back up the claim that show dogs are mutants and cripple?!?, as for discrimination for the colour of a dogs coat it has been proven that some colours are linked with hereditary problems (ie pure white boxer are often totally deaf), the vast majority of dogs have developed over many hundreds of years by either the environment they have come from or the purpose they were used for (a basic principle of Darwin) For well over 30 years good breeders have had their dogs checked through the Kennel Club/B.V.A Health Scheme for many conditions (over £20,000,000 on hip scoring alone in recent years) this has enabled them to breed sounder healthier dogs, and have reduced many problems that breeds have faced in the past
Laila October 11, 2008 at 10:45 a.m.
I cant help but feeling angry and disgusted with the people breeding dogs that will have poor quality of life due to inbreeding. I cannot understand that this is being allowed. It simply has to stop, before it gets more out of control.
Mags53 October 7, 2008 at 9:33 p.m.
The Kennel Club aren't strict about what you show and the breed standards. They may "own" the standards but it is the seperate breeds who define their standards. The breed standards are relatively vague and allow for a great deal of individual interpretation, that's why you get so many different types within breeds, and you do have some very different types within the same breed. Judges who reward over exaggeration are a problem - quickly followed by breeders who breed to that to win BUT not all breeders and judges do this. So long as the dog is actually registered with the KC you can show it; this does largely mean that it has to have had parents, etc. that are registered. Basset hounds that are still used as pack hounds a very different from the ones that are now shown BUT I could get a pack hound and show it so long as I had made sure that it is KC registered - I may not win with it but the KC would allow me to show it - it would be the judges who wouldn't reward it. The KC and breed clubs have done lots of work in recent years to improve the health of breeds who have health issues - no-one is saying that they don't need to do more and in some cases to be much more stringent with a few breeds that have issues. BUT, as I said at the start, alienating all people who own and breed pedigree dogs by saying that they are all mutants, with ill health, who live a life of pain is counterproductive and, frankly, so far from the truth, that only the easily duped, the ignorant or the prejudiced would take it seriously.
cullamubba October 7, 2008 at 9:02 p.m.
i dont think it is what actually happens in the shows themselves, i think it is the way it is judged, or rather the strictness of the kennel club.
if they werent soo strict on what they were looking for, breeders wouldnt feel the need to exaggerate the features the judges look for, the gene pools wouldnt be soo small and the diseases wouldnt be soo much of a problem.
at least noadays people are more aware of what they are doing and breeders that may have bred their dogs the wrong ways unknowingly, may now be aware of it and so it is happening less but if crufts and the kennel club continue to be soo strict on what they consider to be the 'perfect look' of each breed, the problem will still exist in breeders insistant on achieving this look.
also whilst these breeds are promoted on crufts, the public will still want them making it a worthwhile buisness for things like puppy farms.
no one is questioning what happens in the shows themselves, or at least i'm not. it's the message they are putting across to the public and more importantly what is not being told, i.e. what the BBC documentary did tell.
Mags53 October 7, 2008 at 6:15 p.m.
Whether Crufts is televised or not is a whole different argument, it was around for years before the telly got involved. There are hundreds of shows every year where people show their dogs, some of which qualify them for Crufts. Not shows like the Companion show held at the local fete, but run on similar lines to Crufts, which is just another championship show. These shows also sometimes include agility, obedience, etc. Crufts and other shows aren't just about the dogs, the handlers skills at handling their dog is also partly under test. The concept of Crufts and the KC isn't what causes problems in dogs but unscrupulous breeders/puppy farmers - they are what need to be stopped. I think that many people who have been blogging on this site have a limited knowledge about pedigree breeds and dog shows.
cullamubba October 7, 2008 at 11:08 a.m.
i dont disagree with the showing of dogs or agility at all. i'd love to get my younger dog involved in agility. the problem with crufts is the perception it gives of pedigree dogs and that they are ment to look a certain way.
years and years ago people picked certain traits to use in hunting or whatever and thats where to trouble start but to be fair, people all those years ago didnt know what damage they would cause in the future.
the problem now is that it is still happening when breeders (again not saying all breeders) are fully aware of what it's doing and the reason it is still happening is because soo few people are aware of the problems so are more than willing to pay hundreds for a pedigree pup that may well have health problems.
i'm not saying all pedigree breeds have health problems because i have a pedigree westie and a pedigree sheltie and nether have had any health problems, or at least no genetic ones.
the problem with crufts is that it is promoting these breeds to the public sat at home watching, most of whom wont be aware of the problems.
so i dont disagree with showing in general and i'm not saying that dogs dont like it cos i know my dogs love anything like that where they get attention and praise but crufts is way too specific on the dogs look etc which is why it shouldnt be televised because it gives the wrong message to people watching.
the people showing and alot of the people who actually go to watch are probably well aware of all of this stuff anyway so it doesnt need to be stopped altogether just revised on how it's judged, and promoting a better message to those watching. i just dont think it should be on tv.
Mags53 October 6, 2008 at 8:13 p.m.
I don't think that dogs should be neutered/spayed just so that owners can let them roam - I don't believe in putting any animal to an operation for no good reason - cats are a different matter, it is cruel to try to keep them at home all of the time. I know that accidents happen but that's what the morning after pill is for. I know LOTS of people who have spayed bitches a huge percentage suffer from a degree of incontinence and neutered dogs are often mounted by both dogs and bitches, it's cruel to do this unless they need it to cure a medical problem. And, I still say that NOT ALL PEDIGREE DOGS ARE SICK AND IN PAIN. Please do not brand all breeds the same - lets get everyone on board to help to sort out the breeds that do need help AND to expose the breeders who breed from dogs that have not been health tested. I have a dog with me now who is 9 years old and has not been to the vet since his last booster jab at 1 year old (I don't believe in annual boosters because they can cause damage) - he is fit and healthy AND A GOOD PEDIGREE WHO HAS COMPETED AT CRUFTS. I show my dogs as I have fun and so do they - and if they don't have fun I don't make them, they are after all my pets, going to shows is what we do together, some people do obedience or agility, I do shows. By the way, you can show speyed and neutered dogs.
cullamubba October 6, 2008 at 4:49 p.m.
I've been doing alot of research on this subject for a course i'm doing and i'm finding it very hard to find anything good that comes from crufts to actually make a good arguement for an essay.
but anyway my main reason for posting is i've noticed that at least 1 person on this topic has said that theres no reason to spay/neuter dogs just because they have health issues, and also that theres health risks involved in the procedure.
i would just like to set this one straight. dogsdo not have the mental capacity (as much as we might like to think so) to understand the implications of bringing more pups into this world whether we are talking inherited health issues or just adding to the growing overpopulation problem in this country. they breed by instinct, they do not have an emotional need to breed so there is no way you can compare them to a human who will bring a child into this world and care for it for at least 18 years and never stop loving it.
there are no major risks involved with the procedure itself and any health issues that occur because of it such as incontenence in females, is soo uncommon that it barely stands up as an arguement not to spay/neuter.
as for believing that you can simply not let ur dog out to be able to breed, i find that very naive. accidents happen and spaying/neutering is the only way to ensure you will not bring any more unwanted pups into this world when shelters are already heaving with perfectly good dogs looking for homes, many of which will never get and will end up being put down.
the whole crufts issue only adds to this problem as breeders are bringing more and more pups along and encouraging the mostly unknowing public to buy them.
i'm not saying people should stop breeding altogether, but it should be regulated and people should be encouraged to go to shelters more than breeders.
i have 2 pedigree dogs myself, both bought long before i was aware of any of these issues but i can safely say had i known all of this i would have gone striaght to a shelter!
skaletto October 5, 2008 at 8:56 p.m.
there should be an end to it - and puppy farming - there are enough dogs in shelters who need help, they are the ones who need homes.
it's not only the kennel club that are wrong here, it's also the customers of the kennel club. people should boycott getting the 'perfect pet' - that's the only way this will stop. however there are certain members of society who just simply do not care for animal welfare; they just want a cute pet!! i can almost guarantee that even after this programme, some people will continue funding crufts and the kennel club.
my dog is super cute and he's a rescue - as dollymay62 said, you can't beat a cross breed!!
whippet October 5, 2008 at 7:39 p.m.
I agree totally with you Dawnie, we could still have our breeds of dog, for they already exist, but, because of the kennel club, they are becoming increasingly inbred to meet 'show standard' requirements. Very sad, not just from a Canine point of view, but from a humane point of view as well. We need to boycott such establishments, and add variety to these dogs gene pool. Stop showing dogs, stop breed standards, stop inbreeding. They are living creatures that look up to us...lets show them some respect.
Dawnie October 5, 2008 at 1:53 p.m.
I wished i had seen this program before buying my Cavalier King Charles puppy from who i believed to be a reputable breeder. My puppy is 25 weeks old and is very sick, i have had numerous visits to the vet, with her being treated for a severe case of kennel cough and masticatory myositis and she has now developed problems in her front legs. Inbreeding is causing these animals great distress and i would like to see these breeders and the kennel club brought to task. How dare these individuals be so arrogant in their attitude towards inbreeding. We as a society do not tolerate inbreeding amongst humans and the same should apply to all animals.I am not sure my puppy is going to survive her illnesses and this has made me more determined to ensure irresponsible breeders and puppy farms are closed down .
Horse Love October 5, 2008 at 12:23 p.m.
In a way the pedigree dog industry is rather like human modeling. there is a set standard that has to be met to be 'perfect' and 'beutiful' so all my peers spend they're time dieting and worrying about they're shape height and weight in oder to be perfect. If it wasn't for the modelling they wouldn't bother and they would stop starving themselves and having plastic surgery. The way I look at it though all people and dogs have good and bad featcures wether they are models or barmaids and should be appreciated for they're individual good featcures.
Lex October 4, 2008 at 9:30 p.m.
I have had Cavalier King Charles Spaniels since I was six years old. For 19 years I have had this breed in my life and they have been such loyal and fun pets. I currently have two, one of which has a heart murmur and the other which was given the all clear two weeks ago (It was such a relief). Working in the veterinary profession I see so many Cavaliers coming into practice who are in very sorry states. The owners, who bought these pets from reputable breeders believing that the dogs were healthy. I just hope that it is not too late for my beloved breed. What I saw on Pedigree dogs exposed was not at all surprising, however I was absolutely sickened when a dog won best in show when it was diagnosed with syringomyelia. I am glad that she was confronted. In my opinion, she deserved to be outed because what she did is sickening. She should not be allowed to own these beautiful dogs.
Now, the Kennel Club have logged a complaint with Offcom against the BBC for their documetary. What were they afraid of? That finally their lack of ethics has been brought to the attention of the British public? That the Head of the Kennel Club himself is involved with inbreeding his dogs? Who knows. The fact still remains that the poor dogs are the ones who are suffering. I saw well done to the RSPCA and the Dogs Trust for pulling out of Crufts, Discover Dogs etc.
I could not believe the audacity of the Ridgeback breeder who said they had to go to an old vet to get the healthy ridgless pups put down. What century are we living in? When healthy animals are put to sleep and for what? Nothing. These are healthy dogs who are being put to sleep, just because they don't fit in a breed standard? It is about time that the Government do something about this because in a few years, certain breeds are going to be disappearing and the Kennel Club will only have themselves to blame.
EKC September 30, 2008 at 7:22 p.m.
I did some work at a vets a while ago, one of the most distressing things i saw was a bull dog, having been artificially inseminated by the breeder, now having to undergo a ceasarean section to birth 3 pups, one still born, the other two died within 24 hours. I found out that most bull dogs cannot naturally give birth because of their size and build, surely that's nature saying it's gone too far, how are people allowed to continue breeding them?
vigilante September 28, 2008 at 7:42 p.m.
I have not read every item on this subject but what I could not understand was.how did the rspca with the new animal law let the cavies'that were suffering with this problem and reguarly fitting and being held to the floor,
exibiting to what only be discribed as 'stress and unnecerssary suffering.how can you go to someone door to check their animals, having failed to eleviate those dogs suffering or did it do some good by helping to raise funds for yourselves.you have to live by what you preach!!!.
whippet September 27, 2008 at 10:06 p.m.
In response Mags53- Breed standards = profit. Either financial gain to a breeder or a farmer. There is no consideration to the animals here at all. What you are talking about here is breeding animals to an accepted standard. They will obviously be: inbred, genetically demised and suffering pain all their lives-just to suite our requirements. I tend to put the needs of animals before my own. The reason that dogs trusts and animal welfare society's are so full of un-homed dogs is because people of your ideology have set standards of how a particular animal should look. I think that what you are advocating is eugenics with in animal species. Something that does equate to a Nazi Germany.
Hayley1 September 27, 2008 at 7:22 p.m.
The Crux of the problem is inbreeding at all levels
.
Reducing genetic diversity results in unhealthy dogs
.
What needs to be done? Ban linebreeding, open the stud books and insist on occasional outcrosses to other breeds. It's really not that difficult.
Mags53 September 23, 2008 at 11:34 p.m.
Response to whippet - are you opposed to any thoroughbred or pedigree animal? I don't see anything wrong in breeding to a known type or trait, i.e. pedigree breeding, per se, such as Hereford or Jersey cattle, Sussex sheep, Rhode Island Red chickens, Indian Runner ducks or for that matter wild animal species that conservationists are trying to keep pure bred. Does that make all people who want to maintain these different breeds, both domesticated and wild, Nazis? By the way, written down breed standards (for dogs, cattle, chickens, etc., etc.) came AFTER the different breeds were developed for the purpose for which they were developed, for example, the trait of herding or guarding livestock, the size of the animal they were expected to herd or guard against, the terrain they herded over and the colour they needed to be to make sure that they could either blend in with the animals they were herding/guarding or stand out from the animals they were herding/guarding - some of these breeds are still used for the purpose that they were developed. Examples, sheep guarding in the mountains of Europe, hunting for the natives in Africa - yes, it's not just us British "Nazis" who have developed breeds to help us with our lives - you try telling someone who needs a guide dog that they can no longer be guaranteed one because it's more difficult to get hold of a dog that will be trainable because soemone somewhere decided that it was no longer ok to breed to a standard so that you know what size and temperament and capability any puppy may have. I suppose that you either think that we shouldn't keep pet dogs or, as we should no longer decide what we mate our dogs to, that we should just leave them wandering around mating with what-so-ever they want to mate with - the RSPCA and Dogs Trust are stuffed full of the results of this. No-one in their right mind thinks that it's ok to breed animals with genetic defects but not all pedigree breeds/dogs have genetic defects and some mongrels are born with genetic defects. In fact, genetic defects are rife in the human species and we don't interbreed - although we are pedigrees, I suppose, as we conform to a standard, it's just not written down.
rspca under 8teenz September 22, 2008 at 6:59 p.m.
Watching this program made me think of all the pedigree dogs in pain it must be hell for them and the breders can only think about the money.This has actually put me off pedigree dogs.You look how many diseases German shepherds have they have to be hip scored,eye scored and loads of things.Maybe in some way we could breed them back to how they were.But still it would take a lot of work and more than one.
whippet September 20, 2008 at 9:20 p.m.
In response to your comments Mags53-can you imagine if the human race had "breed standards" imposed upon it? Could you ever imagine legislation that allowed that" some breed standards have been changed in recent years to try to ensure improvements in some breeds where breeders and judges have allowed exaggeration to creep in". These are surely the words of a Nazi Germany. To quote "one of the breeds still look much the same as they do in the old paintings that I have dotted around the house" so evolution has been denied its course here then, and the genetic demise of these animals continues. Shame on you. Animal lover.
Mags53 September 20, 2008 at 2:10 p.m.
Welcome to Eisor and German Shepherd for your comments. The kennel club in this country (and most of those abroad) are run as non-profit making bodies AND do not profit from puppy breeding, monies that they make are reinvested into the world of dogs, they run health schemes and co-operate with organisations, like the RSPCA, and pay for research at places like Cambridge Veterinary School (in fact, much of the data used by this dreadful programme was taken from a reasearch programme paid for by the KC at Cambridge in their intent to improve the health of dogs). The KC also allows non-pedigree dogs to be registered with them to enable them to compete in KC regulated Agility and Obedience shows. They run a VOLUNTARY registration scheme - and dog shows are NOT beauty shows, they are confirmation and movement shows - no aspiring judge goes on a beauty seminar BUT they do go on confirmation and movement seminars. The breed standards have been much the same for years so in reality the dogs bred today should look as they did 100 years ago - some breed standards have been changed in recent years to try to ensure improvements in some breeds where breeders and judges have allowed exaggeration to creep in. I have gundogs and they are still multi-functional - one of the breeds still look much the same as they do in the old paintings that I have dotted around the house. So, please, stop blaming the KC, all breeders and all breeds for all of the ills in the pedigree dog scene, most dogs and breeds are as fit and well as the human species who own them - generalising that they are all the same is stupid and is never going to get anyone anywhere - especially the dogs. As for people who breed brother to sister; mother to son, etc. - that is seriously frowned upon BUT wild animals do do that, to animals that isn't seen to be the same as it is to us humans - thinking that animals think the same as us is a bit like buying them clothes and dressing them-up - they are not people, in fact, they are better than most people and would be very amused at the furore about this as they gallop about trying just once more to catch that bird on the edge of the field!! I'm not saying that some breeds don't have issues, that some breeders (especially puppy farmers) aren't money grabbing at the cost to the dogs and that some dogs are not very ill - but saying that that is the KCs fault and that all breeds,breeders are as bad is like saying that all humans are cruel to their animals!!
whippet September 19, 2008 at 9 p.m.
I think we need to a) educate the public a lot more on animal welfare, something that should be instilled in people at an young age and b)except the fact that dogs (like all other creatures) should evolve by evolutionary laws and not those imposed by some self imposed jumped up establishment. Any establishment that exploits or makes financial gain from animals should be outlawed.
chatname September 19, 2008 at 8:11 p.m.
I think the answer lies in educating the public. I've had Terveuren Belgian Shepherds for a number of years and as a breed they can have health problems. The answer is to go to a breeder who carries out health screening and who cares about the breed, I've been good friends with the breeder of my first belgian for 18 years. Don't get me wrong I love all dogs and have had cross breeds and mongrels also. If people are going to buy a pedigree puppy they should thoroughly research the possible problems can occur with the particular breed that interests them and ask for proof from breeders about what health screening they carry out on dogs that are bred from. If the breeder doesn't carry out health screening designed to eliminate problems in the breed DO NOT BUY A PUPPY OR DOG FROM THEM. Also ask if it would be possible to speak to other people who have bought puppies from the breeder in the past. Most caring breeders would be happy and proud to do this. It's important to at least see the Mother with the puppies, temperament is as important as physical health. Whatever you think of shows like Crufts, they are a good place to go to see the breed that interests you and talk to breeders and people who have puppies of that breed. Go to more that one breeder, RESEARCH AND DO NOT BUY A PUPPY ON A WHIM. I'm not forgetting all the wonderful rescue dogs waiting for homes so please don't think that I'm only in favour of pedigree puppies. It should be possible to prosecute breeders who consistently breed dogs with crippling health problems, it's cold blooded cruelty to deliberately breed for characteristics that can cause deformity and pain. Would be possible to put advertisements on TV which tell people that they should ask to see proof of health screening of the parents when buying puppies? There are some breed clubs that advocate temperament testing which might help to screen out overly aggressive or nervous temperaments, and help to cut down the number of dog attacks but perhaps that's another issue.
shakeyjake September 19, 2008 at 5:45 p.m.
As an owner of boxers (can i say these are rescue dogs not puppies) i am alarmed by the rules of how a dog should look as per the kennel club. My last boxer was a white boxer, and according to KC rules at that time, should have been a dead boxer as his colour was not acceptable! He unfortunately also suffered from epilepsy, a common illness in this breed and this was probably the reason for him being in rescue. His illness (apart from the expense) was very distressing for him and ourselves. I doubt he or i would have had to go through this if people stopped interbreeding and modifying dogs unecessarily.
Liz
T.L.C. September 19, 2008 at 4:03 p.m.
Kennel Clubs supposedly have strict guidlines in which the breeders must follow. Sadly it all boils down to the almighty dollar bill. Across Canada and the U.S. dogs of poor health and condition are entered into showrings because the handler/breeder has the money to pay entry fee. Ive even seen cases where a promisary note was given, allowing dogs to be entered without payment.
Rigid guidelines MUST be followed in order to protect the dogs and also the unsuspecting, uneducated buyer. Clubs must make mandatory inspections and must remove any and all breeders who make infractions on ANY rules. Pedgrees can be falsified and these too must be checked through legitimate databases. Licenses MUST be revoked and SURPRISE kennel inspections must take place. A one time infraction should receive a lifetime expulsion in my opinion.
From hip dysplasia, cardiomyopathy, cherry eye, heart murmors, Wobblers Syndrome and epilepsy dogs having ANY of these illnesses should be removed from any and all breeding programs....this is up to the kennel clubs to monitor NOT the average joe public or Humane Societys!
I have seen all too often stories like this one. Breeders who breed solely for income and who do not care when a dog, sick, healthy, deformed or on death's door get a whopping cash grab from the sale of that puppy and then leave the outcome, pain & expense in the hands of that owner.
Sires and Dam's having major medical issues, being bred continuously to promote cash flow. Its insanity!
The laws are lax and unjust and protect no one. Your puppy dies of a hereditary disease and the reimbursement is a replacement puppy from the very same breeder who sold you the sick one! And it goes on and on.
Someone needs to step up to the plate and take action against unscrupulous breeders, who will, in time decimate countless breeds & break millions of hearts in their quest for greed.
T.L.C.
German Shepherd September 19, 2008 at 11:51 a.m.
The programme was completely sensationalist and unfair. It was unfair to associate the Kennel Club with Nazisim.
It also failed to mention the health schemes which it has in place such as the Accredited Breeder Scheme. Furthermore, it did not mention that dogs who do not look healthy are not permitted to enter shows nor did it mention the charitable work undertaken by the Kennel Club Charitable Trust.
I, too, visited Crufts this year and found that the dogs were completely happy and were comfortable in the show ring. Did anyone mention that the KC stated that dogs who appeared to be distressed would not be allowed to part? No. I didn't think so!
Eisor September 19, 2008 at 10:30 a.m.
The TV program was sensationalised. The British Veterinary Association were not happy that hours of filming and interviews they gave willingly were left on the cutting room floor. Breeders and people like myself a pet owner who does care were not happy the program was so biased and did not give viewers the truth. For example when syringomyelia was discovered 7 years ago in cavaliers (it is a disease which affects all small dogs jack russell terrier types yorkies etc) the breed was found by Clare Rusbridge to be 90% affected. In seven years the breeders have got this down to 30% affected. The program has made breeders question why are they bothering if they are not being shown to be the caring people the majority are?
I have emailed and written constantly to Jemima Harrison over theyears and Jemima and I have had a lot of discussion on this, she said she wanted to shock, she was not interested in showing the improvements being made. I have sent her lots of information on the cruel puppy farms the dog dealers the commercial pet shops and the puppy smuggling trade and pleaded with her to make a program on this but I have not had a single reply to these. I have to ask why not? If you are concerned about animal welfare why are we going on about pedigree dogs when there is so much worse suffering to be sorted first?
I gave information to a dog lover to watch for a dog dealer operating in her area, she watched and we were rewarded when with the help of the RSPCA we were able to get him banned from trading in the sick puppy farmed dogs he was regularly smuggling into the country.
Eisor September 19, 2008 at 10:28 a.m.
In the comments here I have noticed several things which I must take up with the posters.
Firstly the majority of pedigree dog breeders do worry about the health and welfare of the puppies they produce, and do welcome all puppy owners keeping in touch and letting them know if they have problems. One reason for this is that if the breeders do not get feedback how can they possibly know that things are not going well?
Hip Displaysia is a typical problem to get to grips with it breeders need to have every single puppy they breed x-rayed, not just the one they keep to breed on from. How many pet owners are willing to pay for this? I know from experience that nobody bothers at all!
I run eye testing clinics for dogs, they are always full of pedigree dog breeders testing their stock. We only see pet owners if something is wrong and of those the majority I see are not pedifrees! Many are first crosses like cocker poos and labradooldes, and more than that I see crossbred dogs of indeterminate breeding.
I ran a campaign with a breed to try to get every puppy tested for glaucoma, the results are interesting, all the breeders who belong to the breed clubs came and got their dogs tested. Pet owners said "Why should I it is expensive and I am not going to breed from my dog he/she is only a pet" The fact that glaucoma is the most awfully painful way for a dog to go blind didn't bother them at all. I was amazed.
dogwalker04 September 19, 2008 at 1:40 a.m.
I feel the Kennel Club is to be blamed for the deformities,afflictions and diseases currently dominating the dog breeds for pets.
I thought it was well made but very harrowing. Dog shows like Crufts should be banned..
It’s just a beauty show and not something that reflects how healthy the dogs are…
More should be made of how FEW defects the animals have and that means breeding dogs that are NOT related.
Which as you know is going to be difficult due to there originally being so few that were the first dogs used as stock.
I think it is disgusting that close relatives (mother to son, Father to daughter etc) are encouraged to breed. We all know that this is what causes defects etc in animals and humans…
In the wild the puppies would be chased from the family pack to go out to be on their own, to fend for themselves.
The stress and pain caused by people sticking to a Breed Standard that is so outdated is laughable (if it wasn’t so heartbreaking)!
The breeders that were on the program were so narrow minded that they shouldn’t be allowed to breed dogs. All they care about is how much money they will get for the inferior puppies they breed..
More must be done to stop this and breed dogs that can do the job they were originally bred for..
What good is a German Shepherd if it can’t walk because the slope of it’s back inteferes with it’s gait and isn’t able to herd sheep has it was intended?
Who cares that a Rhodesian Ridge back hasn’t got a ridge? Its just a cosmetic defect that the dogs don’t need anyway ,but breeders want it even though it causes ill health in the animals.
I think the Kennel Club should be investigated and people bought in who DO care about the dogs… healthwise and conformation.
Less emphasis should be placed on conformation and MORE about healthy puppies who don’t get the deformities etc that are so detrimental the each specific breed.
Something needs to be done NOW!
Mags53 September 18, 2008 at 10:05 p.m.
k.ate - there is no need to spey or neuter them, just be a responsble dog owner and don't let them out to mate - then the rescue centres wouldn't be stuffed full with unwanted cross-breeds. Speying and neutering can cause health problems and are unnecessary procedures - as everyone seems to be comparing dogs to humans, how would you like it if you had an hereditary illness (e.g. poor eyesight, arthritis, osteoperosis, gene for breast cancer, etc.) and someone whipped your testicles off/womb out? Some Bulldog lines (families) are fully capable of giving birth naturally - I do however agree that they are a far cry from what they were like when they were used for bull baiting - as no-one wants that practice back the breed has ceased to have a purpose to enable people to measure fit-for-purpose - should these breeds just be allowed to become extinct? Whilst we're on it, as we humans also carry and pass on hereditory illnesses and genes, and we've not followed the practice of close in-breeding where does that leave the argument that these health issues have been caused by in-breeding in dogs? You see, although the various breeds may have been originally created by close in-breeding for type (and yes, I expect sometimes too close for comfort), that was more than 100 years ago when the different breeds were created to perform specific jobs, close in-breeding is generally frowned upon and many of the breed clubs actively discourage members from doing such breeding.
k.ate September 18, 2008 at 7:35 p.m.
I think that all dogs that are ill should be automatically neutered. The same should apply to bitches that are not capable of giving birth normally. Naturally, she would die during a birth and her ill genes would not be passed to another generation. After the first cesaerian, the bitch should be neutered. Perhaps that would mean that bulldog disappear, but who does profit from the bulldog's existence? Certainly, not bulldogs themselves.
Mags53 September 18, 2008 at 12:56 a.m.
1. The KC have overseen changes in breed standards to promote healthier dogs (changing statements that could encourage extremes);
2. They have laid down a requirement for all judges that they penalise any thing that causes ill health;
3. The RSPCA distancing itself from pedigree dog breeding, the KC, CRUFTS and Discover Dogs is counter-productive - like turning your back if you see something is being done that is wrong;
4. Again, this programme made sweeping statements that lumped all breeds together - that is wrong; there are many, many breeds and thousands of pedigree dogs that do not have any health problems, that lead long and healthy lives, and that still perform the job for which they were originally bred; that still look like they did years ago and that still are capable of working and of winning at shows.
5. Pedigree breeders and the show world are not at fault - but, SOME people who breed pedigree dogs, SOME judges who judge at shows and SOME breed club members encourage or have become used to extremes that need to be changed - the KC and many, many people who show their dogs want this to change BUT alienating them by making the type of statements made in this programme and comparing them with nazis is NEVER going to help anyone or any breed.
6. By the way, I would be interested in the RSPCA Chief Vets comments on the Californian Sea Otter that at one point last century was down to just 50 animals, but who, thanks to careful protection and quite obviously a need for some close-inbreeding has now managed to hugely increase their numbers - and they manage to live as wild animals - does he think that they are all mutants?? By the way, I do not agree with close in-breeding coefficients UNLESS as with the otter, it is for the benefit of the animals NOT breeders.
sammyvanstaden September 16, 2008 at 2:49 p.m.
I did watch the programme, by the way. My mum and stepdad were repulsed as well as me and I wrote the KC a letter. I sent it off three weeks ago AND THEY SILL HAVEN'T REPLIED! If that has happened to anyone else please say
hannah September 16, 2008 at 11:44 a.m.
when i watched rspca with the pitballs and with
other dogs i started to cry it was just sad i
do not care if i just a kid or if some trys to stop me i will try help the animals i just hate seeing animals get really hurt!!
sammyvanstaden September 15, 2008 at 3:38 p.m.
When I saw the documentary about this I was absoloutly DISGUSTED. How could they do this sort of thing to dogs? All they want to do is to make their dogs look pretty but they should care more than that about the actual welfare of their pets. The suffering these people cause! This is exactly the same thing that HITLER did in the holocaust and anyone would be disgusted if that happened to humans again but they dont care about the animals! I feel so bad for the animals.
ZaraandTessie September 15, 2008 at 12:42 p.m.
There are some really good points on this page about the dog breeding.
I have made a group on Face book and I am trying to get as many members to join the group as possible. Surely if we can get together and make a stand then surely the government will make inbreeding dogs against the law.
Shows should be about showing the dog for its purpose, not vanity. All dogs are beautiful and should not be made to suffer. If I had the money and the space I would take them all in. And I'm sure the majority of you feel the same too.
As the title of this webpage states... Animals don't have a voice so we need to stick together. You are all welcome to join my group on facebookhttp://www.new.facebook.com/people/55544875#/group.php?gid=45516551832
The images of the dogs on the programme were quite upsetting but I thought this is to make a point to infrom us, that this type of thing really happens.
Has anyone seen the articles on the news about a man holding his daughter prisoner and getting her pregnant, then the children were taken away because they had problems.
Why can't this behaviour be made illegal to do it to animals as it is with humans?
rspca under 8teenz September 13, 2008 at 11:45 a.m.
I think its absolutely disgraceful what breeders have done to these dogs.I go to Tring museum a lot
and I personally think they were better looking back then.All I can say is the Kennel club has a lot to pay up.Especially for German shepherds (banana backs),Cavalier king Charles spaniel,British bulldog etc, etc.I have had a corgi cross collie,2 German shepherds(which both had straight backs)and now I have a puppy which is a German shepherd cross Belgian malinois.I have only one suggestion to (hopefully)to stop this EXTREMELY STUPID behaviour PETITION TIME!!!
LilMisB September 11, 2008 at 3:50 p.m.
when i watched this programme i was disgraced with the dog showing world. just because a dog may not have a percific marking or curl in its tail, doesnt mean it should be killed!
every dog is unique in its markings but they are just the same in the inside... dogs should be treated as humans they may not be exactly the same but you wouldnt kill a baby if it didnt have the right coloured eyes would you.
i am only young yet i still feel strongly about animal welfare unlike those cruel people who will quite happily kill a innocent puppy because they cant show it...:(
glanville September 10, 2008 at 3:31 p.m.
It's nice you are all still going on about saving the breed's, dose that mean helping
pitt bulls as well you know the one's that's been crying out for us to help them for year's and yet are answer to that is KILL THEM all Even though that it's human's again that teaching them to fight or die. The only difference now is we are killing them by breeding them we need to BAND THE DEED'S AND SAVE THE BREED'S ALL OF THEM.
bobthedogman September 10, 2008 at 9:51 a.m.
I have always believed the problem lies squarely with the Kennel Club who appear to change the BREED STANDARDS to suit what the main breeders of each breed produce rather than making them conform to the original standard also by reducing the gene pool available therfore intoducing close breeding practises which are not of any benefit to the dogs, which after all are our supposed to be our first consideration
Its not the dogs wishes to be put in this situation it's peoples vanity and ego
WolfGirl September 9, 2008 at 3:14 p.m.
I watched the progamme Pedigree Dogs exposed, and it showed some destirbing things. When they showed a dog having a fit, I cried. How could some people DO this??? It's sick and there's no point!!!
Greyhound1405 September 6, 2008 at 9:09 a.m.
Pedigree OWNERS, report EVERY case of a breed specific sick dog, to both the Breeder and The Kennel Club. Then they can have no excuse to lie and say that they know of of no other cases of defects, illnesses etc. Also report that you have done this to the RSPCA, so that they can follow up and sue breeders who continue to sell mutant puppies (like the CKC owner who won in the show then sold puppies even after her dog had been diagnosed), or put down perfectly healthy ones (E.g. Ridgebacks' owner in the film). Stop the cruelty now before these poor creatures completely die out just for show dog owners snobbish vanity.
Also KC have a publicly accesible register of these cases, so we can avoid going to these selfish greedy breeders, until they have put their house in order. Name and shame them! KC we will support you and go to your accredited breeders IF we can trust you. At the moment it is looking as though we can't trust you... I brought my Westie from one of your accredited breeders and he has 'the Westie skin problem'!
OWNERS if all else fails write to your local paper. Keep this ghastly business in the public eye. It is nearly as bad as Puppy farming. The onus is on you owners because some breeders appear to be unscrupulous and unless it does more to stop them, the KC is not at present doing enough to deter the bad breeders.
CharleySW September 5, 2008 at 7:14 a.m.
Yes maybe one sided but in some casses quite true. Some breed are in desperate need of an overhaul in order to make them fit for the purpose - which is? firstly to be able to survive fit and well secondly to work at whatever task they were designed for. Both my breeds, shown and worked, are relatively unaltered except for having grown a longer coat. The are still fit and well and can do the job they were designed for. As to pedigree dogs costing so much at the vets I wonder if it has been taken into account the amount we spend on health testing each animal in my breeds before even considering breeding I will have run up a bill of more than £1000 on each dog just to prove that they have good hips, e;bpws and eyes. Other breeds have more extensive testing and can cost many thousands of pounds before the breeder decides to have a litter. There are also the breeders who do not test and do not spend vast sums of money - are these the ones producing healthy dogs? They are certainley the ones who are not contributing to the so called cost of pedigree dogs. In not testing are they producing good puppies well ask the puppy farmers and they will tell you their dogs never have a days illness they have no vet bills ergo do they have healthy puppies? They dont have vet bills because the dogs die after being bred on every season. They dont have vet bills because they dont care about the puppies they breed.
Back to the programe. Yes it highlighted the need for change in many breeds and I whole heartedly agree with that. What it also did is make the good and responsible breeders think twice. Look at it this way each litter can bring in thousands of pounds but it doesnt come close the thousands of pounds the good breeders have spent getting their dogs to that standard. We will no doubt see some breeds dying out completley now that docking has ended (well done for stopping that nasty stuff) and hopefuly the breeds with congenital problems will be repaired or restored to their former state when they were fit for purpose but should this type of programe stop the responsible breeder where will you go for your puppies. The puppy farmers will have a field day.
Audrey August 31, 2008 at 8:50 p.m.
I would like to see the RSPCA going to summer show, I was at Gedling show Nottingham today 24th August, and was shocked, when a couple came up to me and asked if I wanted to buy a puppy she had in her jumber,it was a bull dog pup, I asked how old it as, she said 4 weeks, I told her it was to young to leave it's mother, and had not had it's injections, she replied so what, we have another 7 to sell, I asked how she would vet people who were to buy, I won't tell you what she said next, surely someone should be trying to protect little animals, it looked so sad, broke my heart.
lil_los@hotmail.co.uk August 31, 2008 at 8:17 p.m.
im completely repulsed that those poor dogs have to suffer all because greedy people want money, there are better more fulfilling ways to earn money such as .. GET A PROPER JOB, not one that requires breeding animals for money. grrrr what is the freeking point!
Mags53 August 29, 2008 at 10:19 p.m.
E Hipps - not sure that you should join in a debate when you haven't seen what is being debated, and not impressed that you didn't watch, if we don't look we don't learn - a bit like people who turn their back on images of starving children because it "upsets them" - as if the starving children aren't upset but they can't switch over!!
Chloe - I love and adore dogs, I belive that I like dogs better than I like most people, I'm one of those busy body people who step in and give my opinion if I see someone mistreating an animal - and yes, some dogs who are taken to shows don't enjoy it and because it's obvious that they don't enjoy it they don't win and so next time they get left at home whilst the ones who enjoy it are shown. Most people who show their dogs are showing their pets; and many people who show their dogs also work their dogs for the purpose for which they were bred and you only have to see a gundog enthusiastically doing what it was bred to do to know that these dogs are having fun. This programme showed very few of the many breeds and showed only unhealthy ones of those breeds, if they did a programme on humans and only showed those with impaired abilities or who were ill in hospital I'm sure that someone somewhere would say that humans should stop breeding!!
I suggest that if any of you who have voiced such strong and biased opinion, based in most part on a one-sided 1 hours worth of sensational television, are really interested in a proper debate based on the good old standard of both sides being given the chance to give their arguments, that you pop along to your newsagent this week and get a copy of Dog World and read the pieces written by the different breed clubs detailing what they have been doing to ensure the future health and well being of their chosen, and much loved breed - these breed club enthusiasts don't breed to make money but because they love their breed, they love having their chosen breed living with them with all of their breed traits, they are not the puppy traffikers/puppy farmers written about elsewhere on this site. For example, you might find it particulalry interesting to read about the work being done with Rhodesian Ridgbacks with the so called "spina bifida" related issues - go on, do the decent thing and find out all of the facts from both sides before forming such strong views. I did, because I wanted to find out if there was any truth in the reporting in the programme - and if the slant of the reporting was fair and right. I believe that the programme reporting was of the standard of the red-top papers that seek to form the minds of those who don't have a mind of their own.
So, before we go in for the genocide of pedigree breeds, aka the Nazis, lets get all of the facts from all sides, and from all breeds not such a small minority, and lets see if they are indeed unhappy, unhealthy mutants.
E Hipps August 29, 2008 at 9:31 a.m.
I didn't watch the program because i thought it was really horrible and it would upset me but i think what it said on it was horrible and i think that the government should rethink its laws etc. so that these awful things don't happen.
janey August 28, 2008 at 9:59 p.m.
I think that because the Kennel Club is meant to be a responsible body - not a money making machine that does not care about animals, how the bulldog gets his massive chest the eyes etc - due to bad breeding, inter breeding thus causing animal suffering, stress anxiety and many operations to correct the "idea of perfect" - animals need to be born,a nd allow to develop not be moulded before even concieved due to "standards" - I shall write to my MP, and I shall continue to support and voice my opinions for the good of animals.
bh August 28, 2008 at 6:22 p.m.
I have written to my MP , the Queen and the kennel club . Here is a link to a petition that seeks to lobby the government for the UK to sign and ratify the European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals. which other european countries have signed.
http://www.petparliament.com/viewarticle.php?sid=15&aid=87
Carol NW August 27, 2008 at 7:51 p.m.
Chloe commented
'although your experiences of pedigree dog showing may not be horrific you can't discard the fact that many many dogs being showed are in fact unhealthy and unhappy.'
Can you explain to me how exactly do you know this? If I told you the majority of show dogs have to have 2 tails would you believe that at face value as well?
Horrific is not a word I would ever associate with showing by the way.
'How can other pedigree dogs be used for jobs such as guiding the blind when their life spans are reduced due to inbreeding and disease, and it is in fact them that need the help?'
As the majority of dogs trained as Guide Dogs are bred by the GDA themselves and are registered Pedigrees does this make them bad breeders. These dogs work in active service until the age of 7 when they are retired and you only have to read the GDA's magazine with it's obituaries of the passing of these wonderful dogs, most well into their teens, from old age to see how their so called inbreeding has reduced their life span. Not
I am not condoning bad breeders but it is all too easy to take these 'opinion's' at face value without looking in to what is being said. All that these negative comments tell me is I might as well breed any old dog to my bitch and sell the crossbreeds off without bothering about health checks costing hundreds yes thats right hundreds of pounds which I have had done in the past.
The KC and other such organisations have not had their heads in the sand, they have been working hard to clear these problems up as they appear. For instance PRA commonly known as 'night blindness' has been virtually eradicated in the Irish Setter, if you buy a pedigree Irish with legitimate papers from the Kennel Club then you know your dog will never suffer from that health problem - without papers you've just spun the barrel in a game of Russian Roulette.
Sue August 27, 2008 at 4:22 p.m.
I believe there are genuine responsible breeders out there and there are healthy pedigree dogs, who may in fact constitute the majority, but as with lots of things, it is the minority who give the majority a bad name. I believe that backstreet breeders are on the increase. If you have a pedigree bitch and you live on income support, how easy is it to persuade one of your mates with a similar dog to loan his dog for stud purposes and then sit back and let nature take its course while you count the profits? As the credit crunch bites, the problem will get worse, and these people don't care about inbreeding as long as they get their money. There will always be a market because these people can undercut the bona fide breeders. Our town is full of Staffies! Sadly, so are our local animal shelters. I didn't see the programme on TV which prompted this debate, but of course it will have been sensationalised, because that is how the media get their viewing figures. It has successfully highlighted an issue which exists, but I think it is a bit simplistic to lay all the blame at any one door. I don't agree with breed standards if achieving them places the welfare of the animal second. I think irresponsible breeders who gamble with the animals' health to win shows are a part of the problem, as are puppy farms and backstreet breeders for whom it is all purely about the money. I can accept that healthy dogs enjoy shows, just like they enjoy agility or any other activity which stimulates them. I see nothing wrong with dog shows, as long as the primary focus is on health and the results accurately reflect that. Unfortunately, in some cases, this is not what happens, and I am glad tht the programme highlighted it and sparked this debate. More regulation of bona fide breeders will not prevent the backstreet breeders and puppy farms from operating. For me, these people are at the root of the problem, and I think it should be tackled from the bottom up. Unfortunately, the answer of quite how that could be successfully achieved is not so easy.
Chloe August 27, 2008 at 3:53 p.m.
Carol NW and Mags 53, your thoughts are very interesting. However, although your experiences of pedigree dog showing may not be horrific you can't discard the fact that many many dogs being showed are in fact unhealthy and unhappy.
How can other pedigree dogs be used for jobs such as guiding the blind when their life spans are reduced due to inbreeding and disease, and it is in fact them that need the help?
Everyone knows that dogs are being mistreated on a daily basis, the public should be well aware of this what with the great efforts of the RSPCA and other charities. But not everyone is aware that it is also the pedigree dogs that are being looked after unfairly and treated with lack of care. The programme did a brilliant job in making us aware of that so that something can be done, it doesn't forget the fact that other dogs need help as well but allows our focus to be drawn to other animals in pain and suffering.
Well, that's what I feel and I know that I knew little of the suffering of pedigree dogs before the show and far from making my forget the suffering of crossbreeds at the hands of abusive owners it has inspired me to make a difference about how other dogs, the pedigree dogs are being treated. Granted its not all the pedigree dogs that suffer cruelty, but if you heard of any dog, any dog at all, be crossbreed or pedigree, would you not want to help them by making the public aware of what has been, and is still going on?
Carol NW August 27, 2008 at 10:50 a.m.
The reaction on this list alone clearly shows why such programmes as the one being discussed are biased and sensationalism. Would the scandal have been half as interesting if it had been show as ‘some pedigree dogs have health problems but dog breeders, the Kennel Club and other organisations such as the BVA, Optigen and the Animal Health Trust are working together to try and improve the health and well being of dogs and educate the buyers and owners of these dogs as to what health checks should be carried out’?
Saying that all pedigree dogs at Crufts are unhealthy mutants is on a par with say that all crossbreed dogs are fit and healthy and have wonderful temperaments – without fully testing every single dog it cannot be proven.
Speaking from experience I took on a crossbreed dog from the RSPCA many years ago, did I have a home check? NO. Did I have a lot of forms to fill in? NO just the one with my name and address and signature. Did I have a Home Visit? NO. Did I have a follow up phone call to check on the dog? NO. Was the dog fit and healthy? NO. Did the dog have any serious hereditary health issues? YES. Would I go to the RSPCA for a dog again? NEVER.
Perhaps another programme could be shown on TV exposing the cruel practises of the non-pedigree dog owners and breeders. There would need to be very little research to find dogs and bitches roaming the streets uncared for, you only have to run through some archive clips of the Animal Hospital programmes for that. It would be easy to film dogs being dragged around on days out in high temperatures running serious risk of hyperthermia and dehydration, how would you like to be out in the sun in a fur coat? The obvious neglect of non-Pedigrees could easily be shown, matted coats, dirty ears, long nails, overweight due to incorrect diet and lack of exercise. All crossbreed litters are from indiscriminate pairings which could be closely related for many generations – it cannot be proved otherwise. If you only spend a few pounds on a puppy from the local paper and it turns out to grow big and boisterous not to worry it can always be dumped on the local rescue and another one bought.
I can hear many voices shouting ‘That’s not me, I don’t treat my dog like that’ well now you know how the Pedigree owners are feeling. Maybe you should take the log out of your own eye first.
Mags53 August 27, 2008 at 9:26 a.m.
The RSPCA can help pedigree dogs by not participating in programmes that are so biased that they alienate breeders who are responsible, and who breed dogs that are fit and healthy and that still do the work for which they were originally bred. Owners and breeders of pedigree dogs are also appalled at the health issues with some breeds and the indiscriminate culling of healthy puppies by anyone (and be assured many crossbreed litters, i.e. in the most part accidental matings, are culled). Dog shows are not "beauty" shows, they are conformation and movement shows; places where people with a common interest gather to look at one another's dogs to try to find the best and fittest for the parents of their next puppy. Don't tar us all with the same brush, help us to change the minds of the breeders and judges who think exaggeration and flash-and-dash are good, and that moderate and fit-for-purpose are secondary. Pedigree dogs are ones that, because they have been bred for a specific purpose with traits and temperament that can be relied upon, play a useful role in the lives of many, such as the blind, the police, search-and-rescue teams, etc. I've had crossbreeds and pedigree dogs for many, many years and you need to be aware that the one that had the most health issues was a crossbreed. In fact, I have one of my latest "mutants with terrible health" sitting with me now, he is 9 years old and has not required ANY veterinary help in his whole life. The KC have made many breed clubs change their breed standards over the last few years, they are trying to get changes made without pushing the breeders away as then their influence will be gone. I hope that in all of the furore that has been caused by such a biased programme that someone remembers to investigate if the allegation about the Spaniel stud dog is true, and that any work being done by the KC and breed clubs to make those who knowingly breed from unhealthy dogs accountable has not been destroyed. And, let us not forget, there are so many crossbreed dogs in rescue centres because of the pet owners who allow their dogs to breed indiscriminately; have a go at them but don't ask me to ever have another dog whose parentage (and therefore the unknown health issues) is unknown and unproven as that can be heartbreaking as well. And, yes, I do show my dogs SO LONG AS THEY ENJOY IT, I have 3 boys and 2 are shown and one just goes to the show for the day out (he loves his days out) - I can assure you that they love it and as with all animals, if they don't enjoy it they won't do it; if they're forced to do it eventually they stop being taken as they just refuse to do what is asked of them. So please, RSPCA, do not make sweeping statements that are not factual, saying that ALL pedigree dogs are unhealthy mutants is like saying that all working class children have rickets.
seaflowers August 25, 2008 at 6 p.m.
The Kennel Club needs to be more accountable. A vets consortium may be a useful moderating panel for them!
k9kathy August 25, 2008 at 5:27 p.m.
Just a quick comment.
I thought the lady who has her healthy ridgeback pups put to sleep because they dont have a deformed spine showed exactly the same cold hearted mentality that fox hunters show when they state that their "sport" is not cruel !!
Money money money....thats what its all about.
sam150150 August 25, 2008 at 4:20 p.m.
Vikki....You say " Ask breed club secretaries for a good breeder."
Featured in the programme was a breeder showing her Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, which although is known to the whole of the breed club to have been diagnosed with the excruciatingly painful disease 'syringomyelia' went on to win best in show, and since being diagnosed has also gone on to sire tens of litters.
Good breeder? I think not! The woman should be prosecuted, for knowingly inflicting untold pain on these poor animals, not to mention the thousands of pounds worth of vet fees the unsuspecting new owners of these puppies will incur.
Maybe the government should insist that breeders should compensate the owners for vet bills etc if they have bred dogs they know to carry these diseases. It's about time these self righteous hypocrites were brought to book.
greebo2007 August 25, 2008 at 3:50 p.m.
Its not just dogs but pedigree cats as well that can suffer, I always wanted a siamese cat, I now have a apple headed siamese cat that was rescued and if ever there was an example of too much over and inbreeding he is it, he is ugly with deformed tail, skinny legs and feet and the poor thing cannot retract his claws properly. I love him to bits but his appearance is dreadful. He has suffered infections in his feet and legs cos of the deformities and cannot walk properly and his eyes run constantly. ps he is happy now and spends loads of time on my bed. So I think pedigree breeding needs to be addressed for all types of domestic animals.
ailim August 24, 2008 at 10:20 p.m.
In answer to the above question, an urgent review of breed standards for every breed of dog needs to be started to try to get back to a normal healthy state.
A vets certificate should be produced for every dog that enters for the show ring and inbreeding should be stopped completely.
I don't know how long all this would take and if it would be in time to save some breeds from extinction.
Its time to show how we really love our dogs.
people interested in starting a petition should go to Petitions.number10.gov.uk This will get a message to a wider audience. Petitions will be open again on September 1st when parliament reconvenes.
Gillski August 24, 2008 at 5:02 p.m.
I didn't see the program but have heard all about it. It is well known that pedigree dogs are largly inbred, that is why a certain breed tend to suffer from a certain problem. We as dog owners must start to take some responsibility - if people did not rush out to buy a lab puppy or a westie puppy there would be less of a market for the people who are doing this. If you are considering buying a dog why not visit the animal resuce centres, there are so many loving, well rounded good dogs that are not pedigree that need homes but people are too snobby when it comes to buying them. Pedigree puppies fetch a ridiculous price where a rescue dog is less than £100 - it is no wonder this is happening.
My rescue dog happens to be a pedigree (I think) but I did not know this at the time. I worry terribly that he may suffer because of what he is and will do for the rest of his life. The only way this will stop is if we as owners stop it!
xx..canine luver..xx August 24, 2008 at 2:30 p.m.
When I watched that program the other night I didn't even realise how bad it was!!! It just made me wonder why we would let it get this bad and that people would take it that far!!!
I went to crufts last year but I wasn't aware of all the problems and this one in particular!!
I've been doing some research and trying to find old pictures of dogs to see how this disguisting method has changed these amazing creatures... for the worse!!!! If anyone knows any sites that have old pictures of dogs, I would love to know. Then I can send it to everyone I know to show them the damage that these sick people have caused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shanouck August 23, 2008 at 3:05 p.m.
I will never watch cruffs again...its just alot of fraudsters! showing animals - i thought the whole idea with winning cruffs was that the breeder had the best and healthiest dog in the show!! This is not the case there deformed,Some with severe deformities... My cross breed is far healthier as i am sure many other cross breeds are that some of you own"..They should be the ones in the show - NOT these FRAUDS!! As for putting healthy puppys down because they have not got a ridge on there back; just makes me flipping SICK!! There are alot of people who can not afford a puppy or who can afford only to pay very little....so why arnt these puppys being offored free to loving homes instead?? This woman who breeds ridgebacks that was on the show and who does put puppys down (and sees that there is NO harm in it? and its the right thing to do? needs to be on the end of my mouth..What are you on Lady?
All these breeders care about is WINNING the cup they do not care about the dog in general and how healthy the puppys are that are breed